PCN Parked in Residents or shared parking or zone... (code 12)

Rincewindwiz

Hi All
Right humpy about this one as I have parked before in this area of Watford and always look out for the restrictions

Looking for a place to park before catching the train. Eventually found a small side street with no yellow lines and parked in front of another car (3 cars in all in a line)

Came back 5 hours later to discover a parking ticket (PCN issues by a CEO).

Looked all round and eventually discovered a couple of small (say 8"x 4") signs on posts quite high up (above head height). I didn't see the first because it was right on the corner of the turning into the road (and I was watching the road!) and anyway I doubt I could have seen it 'cos it was too high up.
Never saw it when I left 'cos it was above head height

Never saw the second one 'cos it was 20x further down the road than I went and on the other side. Both said no waiting between 10am and 12am.

1. I thought there had to be a yellow line if there was any form of restriction and there wasn't (nor AFAICS ever had been). I looked 3 times!
2. The signs are far from obvious

Should I appeal?
Am I likely to succeed

pogofish

Firstly, who issued the ticket and who does it say to pay to?

Rincewindwiz

1. As above: (PCN issued by a CEO)
2. Local council

DaveF327

Rincewindwiz wrote: »

1. I thought there had to be a yellow line if there was any form of restriction and there wasn't (nor AFAICS ever had been).

Not necessarily.

Any bay marked out with white dashed lines may or may not have a restriction attached and it is the driver's responsibility to look around for a sign, even if it means walking the length of a street.

Signs are usually not that big (they don't have to be) and are usually placed at a height where they aren't routinely obscured by parked cars (as viewed from the road). They would be visible to any pedestrian standing in the road or on the opposite pavement.

From "Know your traffic signs":


If you've admitted that there were signs present, then it sounds like you don't have any valid grounds for appeal. That said, it may be worth telling your story on pepipoo.com in the hope that somebody may just find a procedural impropriety in your ticket.

Rincewindwiz

1. Thanks for that. There were no lines of any sort on the road. No white lines, no yellow lines, no red lines, no boxes - totally devoid of any lines of any sort. Lineless - if that is a proper word - otherwise I would have been more wary
2. Signs were not readily visible for reasons given in original post. But if that doesn't matter . . . . .
3. I'll try pepino as well

Coupon-mad

If you've admitted that there were signs present, then it sounds like you don't have any valid grounds for appeal.

Depends what the signs said. Maybe they said 'permit holders only' in between those times - in which case the contravention code 12 is wrong and that's fatal to the PCN.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Rincewindwiz, show us you pepipoo thread link please so we can follow it - make sure you show then BOTH sides of the PCN and a pic of the sign wording (not your best guess/memory of it).

Rincewindwiz

Well that sounds slightly more hopeful - they were not what I understand a CPZ sign to look like

Pepino thread can be found here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=94565&st=0&gopid=1018201&#entry1018201

Photos of signs are shown on that thread and one side of the PCN.

The other side of the PCN is entirely generic stuff about How to Pay and If PC is not paid or challenged and the bit where I write my name at the bottom so it didnt' seem worth showing that.

Thanks for the ray of hope

Coupon-mad

YOU MUST SHOW BOTH SIDES OF THE PCN or pepipoo will get fed up and you may find you won't get further replies as they'll move on to help others who've shown every page of their docs. YOU MUST show what pepipoo need to see, when they say all of the PCN, they mean it. Of course all PCNs have what looks like standard blurb on the back, they are all like that but that's the words pepipoo need to check for omissions.

Also ask them for their opinion on the contravention code, as if that larger image is 'your' sign it's like I said in my first reply. Looks to me like a wrong contravention code, should have been a contravention about permit holders (code 19 maybe?) NOT 'residents or shared use' (seems similar I know but it's not). That sign where you parked says 'Permit Holders' does it, not 'Resident Permit Holders'?!