When is the best time to get a new boiler

captainhindsight_2

littlemoney wrote: »

They don't make boilers like they use to. My Potterton is still in use and it is 31 years old.

I assume when I replace it the next one will not last as long. What is the expected life of a new boiler today?

They do make boilers like they used to, they are even better! it is just people buy a cheap boiler and wonder why it's not very good.

You get what you pay for.

cajef

PaulWhitehouser wrote: »

Hi Jen,
My friend Gary was scoping out prices for a new boiler in case there was a 'right time' to buy a new boiler. After ages on the web he found gritish bass but they were charging a fortune then he finally found a firm doing boiler from just 15 a month which was ideal for him as he's not `loaded` - he was happy with the install and it's been reliable from day one. Yeah I think the company was *********, last time I checked the offer's still on !

Paul

Four posts all recommending the same company, looks like :spam:

Cardew

captainhindsight wrote: »

They do make boilers like they used to, they are even better! it is just people buy a cheap boiler and wonder why it's not very good.

You get what you pay for.

There are loads of threads and hundreds of posts - including newspaper articles and a report from the Royal Society of Chartered Surveyors, on the subject of replacing an old non-condensing boiler. This is a typical thread:


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2930080


The clear consensus of opinion is do not replace until absolutely necessary.


The Achilles Heel of condensing boilers would appear to be their electronics. My GSR plumber has just had to fork out £300+ at trade prices on a new PCB for his own Worcester Bosch boiler and again there are countless reports both on MSE and on the web of similar instances.

jcrpage

Thanks Cardew,

I've had a look at the posts you linked. My boiler has had recurring faults of varying types over the past three years. On balance one could argue that the replacements could mean that there might not be any faults next winter. But the requirement for repairs and the fact that I am going to be letting the house mean I will still look to replace the boiler. It's not for efficiency reasons but for reliability that I am looking to replace it. I still intend to replace the boiler early spring if feasible.

captainhindsight_2

Cardew wrote: »

There are loads of threads and hundreds of posts - including newspaper articles and a report from the Royal Society of Chartered Surveyors, on the subject of replacing an old non-condensing boiler. This is a typical thread:


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2930080


The clear consensus of opinion is do not replace until absolutely necessary.


The Achilles Heel of condensing boilers would appear to be their electronics. My GSR plumber has just had to fork out £300+ at trade prices on a new PCB for his own Worcester Bosch boiler and again there are countless reports both on MSE and on the web of similar instances.

This is the typical attitude of what is wrong with Britain today and the hypercritical older generation holding Britain back, always thinking in the past everything used to be better bla bla bla etc etc etc.

It's all well to say keep an old boiler running until it breaks and you can't get spare parts off the shelf and have to start trawling through websites trying to find parts for an ancient boiler that is costing a fortune in repairs and maintenance.

Its a bit like the people who buy a TV from brighthouse and think they have got a great deal because it has only cost £10 a month.

The fact is a new boiler will be more reliable, will be covered by warranty if it does break down and parts will be available off the shelf the same day, will be more efficient and pay for its self in gas savings, be more responsive, offer a more comfortable home, offer piece of mind etc etc etc.

espresso

captainhindsight wrote: »

The fact is a new boiler will be more reliable, will be covered by warranty if it does break down and parts will be available off the shelf the same day, will be more efficient and pay for its self in gas savings, be more responsive, offer a more comfortable home, offer piece of mind etc etc etc.

That is not fact, pure fiction, hype and lies! :mad:

captainhindsight_2

espresso wrote: »

That is not fact, pure fiction, hype and lies! :mad:

Well it's not

Cardew

captainhindsight wrote: »

The fact is a new boiler will be more reliable, will be covered by warranty if it does break down and parts will be available off the shelf the same day, will be more efficient and pay for its self in gas savings, be more responsive, offer a more comfortable home, offer piece of mind etc etc etc.

Have you read all the reports and input from the various GSR(and previously Corgi fitters) on MSE and elsewhere?

I have not seen any posts/articles that support your contention that a new boiler will be more reliable; in fact exactly the opposite view is almost unanimous. There is so little to go wrong with old boilers and no electronics.

As for 'pay for its self(sic) in gas savings' . We are told that the average gas consumption in UK is 13,500 kWh pa. Nowadays with a daily standing charge it is easy to get gas at under 4p/kWh(I pay 3.27p on a currently available tariff) so that cost at 4p/kWh will be £540 pa.

So we need to guess what savings a new boiler will make. The 90% efficiency of new condensing boilers is never achieved in practice - and of course for hot water it doesn't approach those efficiencies. So what savings are we talking about? £100pa? £200pa?

A few years ago I posted this:

The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors stated recently :

The average cost of installing one of these modern boilers is £1,720, but saves on average just £95 off people's gas bills." See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...erts-warn.html

So to substantiate your claim that a new boiler would pay for itself, would you care to give us your estimate of annual savings and the average cost to install a new boiler?

I think the best guarantee on the market is 5 years, and most manufacturers seem to feel 10 years is the expected life of a condensing boiler.

I have heavy consumption of gas, so my savings would be higher than average. If I thought that it was an economic proposition to change my 26 year old boiler, I wouldn't hesitate. My trusted plumber who lives nearby is also of the opinion it would be silly to change - and he would get the job of changing the boiler.

So can you please elaborate/justify your post.

footyguy

As an MSE'er I would say its when the boiler fails and is deemed impossible to repair or is otherwise beyond ecomomical repair to do so.
(always get a second opinion unless absolutely sure!)

You mention the boiler is unrelaible and often breaks down.
Maybe consider using a different qualified engineer who should be able to check, repair & service your boiler as appropriate to ensure trouble free operatain

captainhindsight_2

Cardew wrote: »

Have you read all the reports and input from the various GSR(and previously Corgi fitters) on MSE and elsewhere?

Not every single one no, but im sure neither have you.

I have not seen any posts/articles that support your contention that a new boiler will be more reliable; in fact exactly the opposite view is almost unanimous. There is so little to go wrong with old boilers and no electronics.

All reports are using data that is 6-12 months old and technology can progress a lot in that time. Say a report written today would be using data which was started to be collected about 12-6 months ago and boiler that were fitted 24-18 months ago. Again technology progresses a lot in that time.

As for 'pay for its self(sic) in gas savings' . We are told that the average gas consumption in UK is 13,500 kWh pa. Nowadays with a daily standing charge it is easy to get gas at under 4p/kWh(I pay 3.27p on a currently available tariff) so that cost at 4p/kWh will be £540 pa.

To make the calculations easy stick to 4p/Kwh, for that 13500kWh (£540 pa) of gas going into a 60% efficient boiler only 8,100 kWh of heat are being produced. To produce that same amount of heat in a modern boiler 90% efficient I would only need to pay for 9,000kWh of gas (£360 pa) a £180 saving. Replace the boiler after 12-15 years that is £2160-£2700 saving over the life time which is more than the cost of a direct replacement. Also on top of that the savings will become higher and higher as every year prices increase. On top of that no money is required for any breakdowns if they are required if it breaks down due to waranty cover, more piece of mind knowing that if it does break down parts will be available off the shelf and be able to be fixed the same day etc etc etc

So we need to guess what savings a new boiler will make. The 90% efficiency of new condensing boilers is never achieved in practice - and of course for hot water it doesn't approach those efficiencies. So what savings are we talking about? £100pa? £200pa?

A few years ago I posted this:

So to substantiate your claim that a new boiler would pay for itself, would you care to give us your estimate of annual savings and the average cost to install a new boiler?

I think the best guarantee on the market is 5 years, and most manufacturers seem to feel 10 years is the expected life of a condensing boiler.

I have heavy consumption of gas, so my savings would be higher than average. If I thought that it was an economic proposition to change my 26 year old boiler, I wouldn't hesitate. My trusted plumber who lives nearby is also of the opinion it would be silly to change - and he would get the job of changing the boiler.

So can you please elaborate/justify your post.

Everything is answered above, if heat requirements are higher the savings will obviously be greater.

You can get 8 year waranties on Vaillant, Worcester Bosch and Ferolli if you use an approved installer + others probably and there is always the option to buy extended waranties.

Taking advice from an old plumber is always a bad idea, I would much prefer to take advice from a plumber who is a couple of years out of college and is on the ball on all new technologies etc.