Land registry

Nellie123_2

Help please - Complex will query

Grandmother married and wrote joint will at solicitors with new husband. Grandmother named her husband as first executor and me as second executor in the event he could not act. Husband named his son as his executor. on her passing he involved me in going to the solicitors to collect the will and one certified copy, close bank accounts and I registered her death. The will states grandchildren on my grandmothers side get savings split equallly, the house (in joint names) will be divided once the surviving partner dies between his children and grandchildren on my grandmothers side. This is where it got messy....
New husband refused to go to probate on savings (due to their value) savings were split equally between grandchildren when i went to clear my grandmothers belongings he refused to let me in & i now have no contact with him. How can i make sure 50% of the house is given to the grandchildren on my grandmothers side? can i contact land registry? many thanks

g6jns_2

Nellie123 wrote: »

Help please - Complex will query

Grandmother married and wrote joint will at solicitors with new husband. Grandmother named her husband as first executor and me as second executor in the event he could not act. Husband named his son as his executor. on her passing he involved me in going to the solicitors to collect the will and one certified copy, close bank accounts and I registered her death. The will states grandchildren on my grandmothers side get savings split equallly, the house (in joint names) will be divided once the surviving partner dies between his children and grandchildren on my grandmothers side. This is where it got messy....
New husband refused to go to probate on savings (due to their value) savings were split equally between grandchildren when i went to clear my grandmothers belongings he refused to let me in & i now have no contact with him. How can i make sure 50% of the house is given to the grandchildren on my grandmothers side? can i contact land registry? many thanks

He has stolen the money and goods as well as breaching his duty as executor. It might be an uphill struggle but you might as the solicitor if it is worth going to the police.

getmore4less

were these joint(mutual) wills or mirror wills?

was the property joint tenants or tenants in common?

Land_Registry

The first thing to appreciate from a registration perspective is that the beneficial title (the will, savings etc) are invariably quite separate from the legal title (property) so any dealings with the property from our perspective would be focused on who are registered as the owners, how they are registered (as getmore4less mentions) and who then has probate (if appropriate) - we would not read or consider the will for example.

If the property is registered in their joint names then in essence the legal title would now be dealt with by the surviving registered owner.

You mention that the 'split' won't occur until the surviving owner dies so ensuring that happens will probably come down to pursuing the matter as and when that happens.

If you wanted to try and protect their interest now then you should seek legal advice although how the title is registered may already offer some form of protection anyway.

This is where the difference between the beneficial and legal titles can get complicated and legal advice should always be sought. However where such a 'split' exists the joint ownership is often held as tenants in common and a restriction registered to reflect this - our online guidance on joint property ownership explains this further.

The expectation therefore would be that the title is registered in their joint names as tenants in common and a form A restriction (see guidance) exists on the legal title.

The restriction can help to protect the beneficial interest/split but it is important to understand both how it does this and how the surviving owner can still deal with the property.

In my experience the legal expectations are that things are dealt with in accordance with the wills/wishes of the deceased but where that does not happen then it can become a legal argument between those involved and it is this aspect that your legal advice should seek to cover for you both with regards how any interest can be protected or, as may most likely be the case, it already is as far as the legal title at least is concerned.

Anything else will invariably come down to communication within the family and with those directly involved as well as vigilance re the property for example.

BobQ

g6jns wrote: »

He has stolen the money and goods as well as breaching his duty as executor. It might be an uphill struggle but you might as the solicitor if it is worth going to the police.

It is not clear from the original post (is it?) who is the residual beneficiary of the estate. If it is the husband he is not stealing property/goods as they are his property. It seems likely if they shared a house that she might have left the contents of the property to her spouse. If the Will names anyone else as the residual beneficiary or makes specific bequests then clearly he would be failing to carry out the Will, unless the items are left to him. OP does not make this clear.

Regarding the savings, if they have been distributed to the grandchildren as defined in the Will then he has not stolen them.

If he has distributed them otherwise than in the Will I do not think this is stealing. He has simply given away his own money and failed to distribute the savings as per the Will. In this case another option might be to apply for a Grant on the basis that the named executor has not done so. To date he appears to have got the money by signing indemnities if he is not who he claims to be. This is fine if nobody challenges this but once he steps outside of the requirements of the Will he is in a difficult position.

Regarding the House, as others have stated it depends on the basis of ownership and what the Will states about the matter. If it is tenants in common, but he has a right to live in the property then the Executor should register an interest in the property on behalf of the eventual beneficiaries.

g6jns_2

BobQ wrote: »

It is not clear from the original post (is it?) who is the residual beneficiary of the estate. If it is the husband he is not stealing property/goods as they are his property. It seems likely if they shared a house that she might have left the contents of the property to her spouse. If the Will names anyone else as the residual beneficiary or makes specific bequests then clearly he would be failing to carry out the Will, unless the items are left to him. OP does not make this clear.

Regarding the savings, if they have been distributed to the grandchildren as defined in the Will then he has not stolen them.

If he has distributed them otherwise than in the Will I do not think this is stealing. He has simply given away his own money and failed to distribute the savings as per the Will. In this case another option might be to apply for a Grant on the basis that the named executor has not done so. To date he appears to have got the money by signing indemnities if he is not who he claims to be. This is fine if nobody challenges this but once he steps outside of the requirements of the Will he is in a difficult position.

Regarding the House, as others have stated it depends on the basis of ownership and what the Will states about the matter. If it is tenants in common, but he has a right to live in the property then the Executor should register an interest in the property on behalf of the eventual beneficiaries.

As I read it there is no residuary beneficiary.

BobQ

g6jns wrote: »

As I read it there is no residuary beneficiary.

I think it unlikely that a professionally drawn up Will would detail every item that a person owned as specific bequests, but you could be right. Something for the OP to explain if he wishes:)

g6jns_2

BobQ wrote: »

I think it unlikely that a professionally drawn up Will would detail every item that a person owned as specific bequests, but you could be right. Something for the OP to explain if he wishes:)

The statement that the OP "refused to go to probate" when there is a property involved and several bank accounts strongly suggests that the named executor is acting improperly at the very least and may well have misappropriated estate assets and distributed them other than in accordance with the will.

BobQ

g6jns wrote: »

The statement that the OP "refused to go to probate" when there is a property involved and several bank accounts strongly suggests that the named executor is acting improperly at the very least and may well have misappropriated estate assets and distributed them other than in accordance with the will.

Clearly you can infer whatever you want from the OP. What he actually says is that the named executor "refused to go to probate on savings (due to their value)...." This is only a valid approach provided there is no other reason for applying for probate and provided nobody challenges the executor's right to act.

The OP seems to have gone away so I guess it is an academic debate unless he re-appears!

g6jns_2

BobQ wrote: »

Clearly you can infer whatever you want from the OP. What he actually says is that the named executor "refused to go to probate on savings (due to their value)...." This is only a valid approach provided there is no other reason for applying for probate and provided nobody challenges the executor's right to act.

The OP seems to have gone away so I guess it is an academic debate unless he re-appears!

You are probably correct! The story was very confused but people are often confused as to the terminology. Nevertheless there do seem to be a significant number of people who see a death as an opportunity to make a quick few quid.