UK CPM - PCN and next Steps - Farnborough Village

oldcodger1

So have read the Newbie sticky, it mentions to post new thread when dealing with UK PCM hence this thread

A windscreen ticket issued, waited for the NTK (Their version of) and now just confirming next steps with the group. Course of action is to do soft appeal using template and then get POPLA code etc and follow next steps from there.

Of interest is that the signage (see below) did not state that blue badge had to be displayed, just holders only to use the space (To avoid a flame - yes a badge holder was using the space that attracted this ticket).

For those that are interested here are images of the signage and also the demand (Broken links). The sign was taken in bright daylight, the ticket was received in darkness and is about 10ft up and in very small text)

Sign - hXXp://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/AE961EB5-6E39-4FD2-98D7-97013DC259ED_zpszagmyevc.jpg

Demand Front - hXXp://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/Demand-Front_zps2edaaccc.jpg

Demand Back - hXXp://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/Demand-back_zpse337de73.jpg

Dee140157

Sign - http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/AE961EB5-6E39-4FD2-98D7-97013DC259ED_zpszagmyevc.jpg

Demand Front - http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/Demand-Front_zps2edaaccc.jpg

Demand Back - http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/Demand-back_zpse337de73.jpg

Coupon-mad

Of interest is that the signage (see below) did not state that blue badge had to be displayed, just holders only to use the space (To avoid a flame - yes a badge holder was using the space that attracted this ticket).

Fair enough - also the only sign is BLACK and it was DARK!

Luckily for you, UKPCM is in fact a firm I should remove from the 'special treatment' list in the NEWBIES thread (I must remember to do so now!) and you can send the template first appeal to them. I added UKCPM to the 'caution' list about a year or more ago, when they won an POPLA appeal because the POPLA assessor misread the sign as a matter of 'consideration' (i.e. the charge being a fee agreed to allow the parking) not 'breach' (the opposite!). The POPLA decision was complained about and overturned.

I would perhaps change the point about signage to point out that the sign is black and unlit/unreflective, and it was dark. Also add to the template, an extra point F that the driver (or passenger) is indeed a Blue badge holder so they did comply with the parking rules. There's nothing on the sign even if it had been readable in the dark, to say that Council Blue Badges have to actually be DISPLAYED), just that the occupants must include a Blue Badge 'holder' - which was the case. You could attach a copy of it with the name/photo covered.

oldcodger1

So had a 'wonderful' reply from CPM, a mixture of boiler plate, minor edits and spelling mistakes.

The upshot of course is that they rejected the appeal *Shocker* They failed to address the specifics, ignore the obvious problems in their case (i.e. the terms of parking do not even state as requirement the thing the driver is supposed to have contravened), claimed normal business costs as Pre estimate of loss and generally were quite rude - also they shot a hole in their own business model (Stating that if all drivers adhered to signage etc then no costs would ever be present)

So onto Popla appeal stage

So question to group - planning on sending the sample letter to popla (as detailed under the sticky) for UKCPM - anything that I should add / subtract ?

Rejection letter from them as below (replace the x with the usual P)

httX://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/Page1_zpsf0e05445.png
httX://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/page2_zps15dde25d.png
httX://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/page3_zpse361f374.png
httx://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/page4_zps83d1ac8f.png

Half_way

Hotel staff have no say?
have you told both the hotel and the parking scumbags that you have a valid blue badge ?
Tell the hotel that they must call off their agents - the hotel is responsible for the actions of their agents and if they do not cancel you will ( hopefully - if not then say may) hold the hotel liable for a breach of the equalities act.
You can also blow the pre estimate of loss away and explain to the hotel that this could be seen as trying to fraudulently obtain money through deception.

Fruitcake

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/Page1_zpsf0e05445.png
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/page2_zps15dde25d.png
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/page3_zpse361f374.png
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag480/jon__france/Parking/page4_zps83d1ac8f.png

Coupon-mad

LOL!

''Our PCN complies with the schedule 4 of the protections.''

''Irrespective of the fact that you did not purposefully do the breach, we emphasise that it is the drivers' duty to ensure that they are parked in accordance with the current terms of parking as displayed on the warning the signs.''

But where is the POPLA code on that letter? Did they just attach a POPLA form or did they hide the 10 digit POPLA code on the front page as some sort of reference (they are supposed to state it on the final part of the rejection letter where they should explain how to appeal to POPLA not just give the website without explanation).

POPLA Newsletter from a year ago:

http://www.popla.org.uk/Newsletters.htm

Failure by an operator to provide a verification code in their rejection letter is a breach of the Code of Practice, sanctionable by the BPA.

Rather than just a reference, the verification code should be clearly identifiable as such, for example:

Your verification code, which you will need to appeal to POPLA, is XXXXXXXXXX.

Even if the verification code is automatically printed on an enclosed appeal form, it must still be in the dated rejection notice/letter. If it is not, and if the issue arises, it may then be difficult for the operator to show exactly when the verification code was provided to an appellant.

oldcodger1 wrote: »

So question to group - planning on sending the sample letter to popla (as detailed under the sticky) for UKCPM - anything that I should add / subtract ?

So I would add in detail in the paragraph about signage, about the sign being black and unlit (whoever heard of a BLACK sign being expected to be read in the dark, it's almost a joke sign)?! Be careful not to imply who parked/was driving the car, when adding wording.

And add in a section at the end about the rejection letter not showing the verification code clearly where they talk about the option for POPLA - as I stated above (quote from the POPLA Newsletter). And also email the BPA, Steve Clark, to report this breach.

The_Slithy_Tove

OP: You have left your name unredacted in one of those images. You may want to edit.

All a bit laughable, really. A sure fire win on GPEOL. It would be good to hammer the hotel, though, as suggested (breach of Equalities Act).

Another PPC attempting to impose a contractural charge for parking without permission (at which point you surely have permission to park for £100 - oops). Tempting to go for "no breach" with the fact that displaying a blue badge was never a requirement. POPLA are unlikely to consider it, though as GPEOL will win.

BenefitMaster

which Farnborough is this? Hampshire or Kent?

Mike172

Exactly what mine said.

Can I see your appeal or was it roughly the same as the template UKCPM ones?

oldcodger1

Fruitcake - thanks for links conversion
The Slithy Tove - Yup, now redacted, thanks
Benefit Master - Hampshire
Half_Way - Yes tried the hotel route, they have no interest and devolve to the 'no control over it as contracted service'


Coupon_Mad - There was no appeal form in there - just what you see on the scans, so yes they just tried slipping the code in as a reference (and it nearly worked as I dint spot it until 4th read). I also tried in the soft appeal the sign was black, set too high up as well as mentioning that terms don't state display of badge - all ignored in their response.

Mike172 - I haven't drafted and sent yet, It will be ostensibly the same as the one linked from newbies.

I must admit I especially liked the argument that if all people 'obeyed the rules' that they would be out of business, doesn't that just mean that they are encouraging people to break the rules so that they can stay in business, completely at odds with the outcomes of their employers I would think.

Ho hum, onto the next stage, although the question I have is thus, is the appeal to popla couched in the terms of appealing the lost appeal to the parking operator ? or is it a fresh appeal' that ignores the rejection ?