Faulty Dishwasher - What is reasonable?

lloydyd

Hi all,

I have been renting from this LL for 3 years. He is completely useless and does everything when he is ready (my garden gate has only just been fixed after last years storms over a year ago and I had to sort it).

Anyway, the dishwasher has gone phut. It is not heating the water. We told the agent who then told the LL. This was 2 weeks ago. Last week the LL came over with a valuer to value the property (maybe he is looking to sell).

The LL asked me to measure the dishwasher and said that he cant repair as its too old and that he would arrange a replacement. A week has passed and I emailed the agent asking whats going on. They said they cant arrange the contractor to attend as the LL is now in New York and he will arrange when he gets back but they don't know when that will be.

It says in the contract he is responsible for the washing machine and similar goods so he is deffo responsible to repair or replace within a reasonable time frame. I think 2 weeks is reasonable, so I have emailed saying this is not acceptable and that I will replace and take off the rent. I am fully expecting a section 21 to follow but im sick of this idiot not fulfilling his duty under our contract. I just need to know if I am being unreasonable?

We are very good tenants and have been renting for 16 years (sadly) and we look after his home as if it were our own, making improvements etc. For example, the shower head broke the other week. I didn't call the agent, I just went out and bought a new one. I haven't even informed them as it just wasn't worth it. the same shower had a broken seal and water was leaking through it, I told the agent and fixed it myself at my expense....We are good tenants and sick of this guy not doing a thing when something goes wrong....:mad:

lloydyd

This is the email I sent to them both (LL and Agent)

This is completely unacceptable. The contract states thatthe landlord is expected to repair or replace within a reasonable timeframe.This is generally accepted to be two weeks after notification of the issue.Friday 31st October will be two weeks since we made you both awareof the issue. Therefore you have 3 options open to you

1. Repair or replace the faulty item

2. We will arrange for a new dishwasher to bedelivered at our expense and we will deduct the amount from the rent

3. We will arrange a new dishwasher at our expenseand the disposal of the old one and we will then take it with us when we leave.
You are a landlord, you have a responsibility toyour tenants under our legally binding contract to get this sorted out within areasonable time frame. I do not accept the fact that you are in New Yorkas a reasonable excuse to delay this.
Agent (name removed), you are a managing agent, you should be able to sortthis out on behalf of your client. LL was at the property last week andspecifically asked for the measurements of the unit to replace. He stated thatthe current model was not repairable as it is too old and no longer supported.This was last Tuesday. Why has nothing been done since this time?
As above, I expect your response by no later than Thursday30th October or option 2 will be used in the absence of a response.

Hedgehog99

"3. We will arrange a new dishwasher at our expense and the disposal of the old one and we will then take it with us when we leave."

You might want to re-phrase that last bit - a petty landlord could deliberately misunderstand it to mean that you'll buy a new DW and take the old one with you when you leave. I know that's not what you mean!!

Someone I know rented out a couple of flats where there was a persistent problem with the BT broadband. the LL did everything he could to fix it, and the tenants knew that it wasn't his fault, but he still gave them a discount on the rent because there should have been broadband for them to use.

lloydyd

lol, our LL would have to look up the word discount. He really has been the worst LL in the world. The day before we moved in we inspected the property (with the agent) we told him that we found some of the drain from the top of the house on the floor in the garden which must have been blown off. He said he would sort it.

3 years down the line its not sorted despite several reminders. we have had damp in the lounge for 2 years (he has been told several times about this also) and still nothing has been done. He does everything he can to get out of doing anything and we have now had enough and have snapped. I wont be bullied anymore by this guy. Let him issue his section 21 and I will still do the above and buy a new dishwasher and will move out only when I have found something suitable to move my family into....Grrr.

Jagraf

lloydyd wrote: »

lol, our LL would have to look up the word discount. He really has been the worst LL in the world. The day before we moved in we inspected the property (with the agent) we told him that we found some of the drain from the top of the house on the floor in the garden which must have been blown off. He said he would sort it.

3 years down the line its not sorted despite several reminders. we have had damp in the lounge for 2 years (he has been told several times about this also) and still nothing has been done. He does everything he can to get out of doing anything and we have now had enough and have snapped. I wont be bullied anymore by this guy. Let him issue his section 21 and I will still do the above and buy a new dishwasher and will move out only when I have found something suitable to move my family into....Grrr.

Why haven't you moved ( honest question )? Three years is a long time to stay in a property where you don't get on with the landlord. Are you sure the agents aren't the managing agents and supposed to sort it themselves ( with landlords permission, ie, do the chasing).

moromir

lloydyd wrote: »

This is the email I sent to them both (LL and Agent)

This is completely unacceptable.
Presumably you have a sink, and therefore it is not an emergency or a catagory 1 hazard (as defined by Government guidance to local Councils on acceptable housing standards).

The contract states thatthe landlord is expected to repair or replace within a reasonable timeframe.This is generally accepted to be two weeks after notification of the issue.
Says who? There is no legal definition of 'reasonable timeframe' in respect of non-emergency repairs that I'm aware of.

Friday 31st October will be two weeks since we made you both awareof the issue. Therefore you have 3 options open to you

1. Repair or replace the faulty item

2. We will arrange for a new dishwasher to bedelivered at our expense and we will deduct the amount from the rent
Unless you follow the correct procedure (which you haven't) you have no rights to do this and will find yourself in rent arrears. See below.

3. We will arrange a new dishwasher at our expenseand the disposal of the old one and we will then take it with us when we leave.
Unless you follow the correct procedure (which you haven't) you have no rights to do this and will find yourself in rent arrears. See below.

You are a landlord, you have a responsibility toyour tenants under our legally binding contract to get this sorted out within areasonable time frame.
See above on definition of reasonable timeframe, it is unlikely that you do not have alternative dishwashing facilities.

I do not accept the fact that you are in New Yorkas a reasonable excuse to delay this.
A judge would likely disagree, indeed the Deposit Protection Service guidance explicitly allows for a consideration and a delay in deposit returns due to pre-booked holidays.

Agent (name removed), you are a managing agent, you should be able to sortthis out on behalf of your client.
An agent cannot spend their client's money without their explicit consent. You can thank the new 'Redress Scheme' guidance issued by the government in October.

LL was at the property last week andspecifically asked for the measurements of the unit to replace. He stated thatthe current model was not repairable as it is too old and no longer supported.This was last Tuesday. Why has nothing been done since this time?

As above, I expect your response by no later than Thursday30th October or option 2 will be used in the absence of a response.

You need to follow this procedurely explicitly if you wish to make a repair and deduct it from the rent.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/tenants_repairs_and_improvements/tenants_doing_repairs

lloydyd

moromir wrote: »

You need to follow this procedurely explicitly if you wish to make a repair and deduct it from the rent.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/tenants_repairs_and_improvements/tenants_doing_repairs

There is no way any judge in the land would authorise an eviction and make a family homeless in these circumstances.

" owe less than eight weeks' rent, your landlord must go to court to get an order to evict you, and the courts will only evict you if the judge thinks it is reasonable to do so. "

There are several websites that site 2 weeks as being a reasonable amount of time to sort something like this. The fact that we have other facilities and this isn't an emergency does not excuse the LL's obligations under our contract.

He is legally obliged to repair or replace this item. He has had 2 weeks to do this or to attempt to arrange this. He has since gone to the USA AFTER finding this out giving no return date and is now saying he will sort out on his return but isn't saying when that is.

Im sorry but if any judge in the land would side with the LL in this respect and agree to evict with a view to purposely make a family homeless in these circumstances then I will eat my hat.

On the guidance from the link you provided....
Step 1 - write to your landlord about repairs - DONE!
Step 2 - write again saying you plan to do repairs yourself - Email above!!
Step 3 - get quotes for repair work - irrelevant as cannot be repaired so quotes for new unit will be sent
Step 4 - send quotes to your landlord - DUH!!

And so on....Im pretty sure I have followed all of the above??!!

SerialRenter

lloydyd wrote: »

There is no way any judge in the land would authorise an eviction and make a family homeless in these circumstances.

" owe less than eight weeks' rent, your landlord must go to court to get an order to evict you, and the courts will only evict you if the judge thinks it is reasonable to do so. "

Are you within a fixed term, or periodic? Because if periodic, every court in the land would evict you if the landlord served you with an section 21 notice, which is a no fault eviction i.e. the judge has no discretion.

lloydyd wrote: »

On the guidance from the link you provided....
Step 1 - write to your landlord about repairs - DONE!
Step 2 - write again saying you plan to do repairs yourself - Email above!!
Step 3 - get quotes for repair work - irrelevant as cannot be repaired so quotes for new unit will be sent
Step 4 - send quotes to your landlord - DUH!!

And so on....Im pretty sure I have followed all of the above??!!

But have you followed the time scales? Also, don't rely on emails doing the job of letters. Put it in writing, and keep proof of postage (which is free, just ask for it at the post office).
Also, you still need to get quotes, not for repairs, but for the replacement item. For example, you couldn't just go and buy yourself a top of the line model then expect the LL to pay up. Your best best is to find a model that has similar features to your current broken model and get 3 or more quotes for that.

lloydyd

SerialRenter wrote: »

Are you within a fixed term, or periodic? Because if periodic, every court in the land would evict you if the landlord served you with an section 21 notice, which is a no fault eviction i.e. the judge has no discretion.



But have you followed the time scales? Also, don't rely on emails doing the job of letters. Put it in writing, and keep proof of postage (which is free, just ask for it at the post office).
Also, you still need to get quotes, not for repairs, but for the replacement item. For example, you couldn't just go and buy yourself a top of the line model then expect the LL to pay up. Your best best is to find a model that has similar features to your current broken model and get 3 or more quotes for that.

Why? I have received direct replies to these emails which would acknowledge receipt wouldn't it?
you couldn't just go and buy yourself a top of the line model then expect the LL to pay up - totally. We don't want a gold plated one. just one that works. TBH I don't care if its a value one from Tesco as long as it works.

Of course I understand that this is not a major thing and its just an inconvenience to not have the dishwasher (I hate washing up) but none of that is relevant. You could say the same about a washing machine (well you can wash your clothes in the bath so its not an emergency). A dishwasher has become a part of our culture. It was provided when we moved in, it is listed on the inventory and identified as the LL responsibility to maintain and repair or replace when broken.

We are actually in a periodic AST which we signed when our actual AST ran out. The LL wasn't sure if he was going to sell yet so we agreed on a 2 month notice period. I know a section 21 would mean we have to move, but Im past caring about that now. Re rent arrears by not following procedure. I believe I have and I am so I cant see that being an issue.

This LL thinks he can treat his tenants as second class citizens and bullying us into submission.

jjlandlord

lloydyd wrote: »

Why? I have received direct replies to these emails which would acknowledge receipt wouldn't it?

Yes, that's fine.

Jagraf

lloydyd wrote: »

Why? I have received direct replies to these emails which would acknowledge receipt wouldn't it?
you couldn't just go and buy yourself a top of the line model then expect the LL to pay up - totally. We don't want a gold plated one. just one that works. TBH I don't care if its a value one from Tesco as long as it works.

Of course I understand that this is not a major thing and its just an inconvenience to not have the dishwasher (I hate washing up) but none of that is relevant. You could say the same about a washing machine (well you can wash your clothes in the bath so its not an emergency). A dishwasher has become a part of our culture. It was provided when we moved in, it is listed on the inventory and identified as the LL responsibility to maintain and repair or replace when broken.

We are actually in a periodic AST which we signed when our actual AST ran out. The LL wasn't sure if he was going to sell yet so we agreed on a 2 month notice period. I know a section 21 would mean we have to move, but Im past caring about that now. Re rent arrears by not following procedure. I believe I have and I am so I cant see that being an issue.

This LL thinks he can treat his tenants as second class citizens and bullying us into submission.

Sounds like the dishwasher is just the last straw. I would be more concerned about the damp.