Advice re NTK from PCM (UK) Ltd

AnthonyParkingPerson

Hi. Following earlier advice re a PCN from PCM (UK) Ltd to which I have not replied, I have awaited and now received the NTK. This is for allegedly parking in a permit-holders only car park without displaying a permit. It appears deficient on following grounds:

a) No 'period of parking' is specified. It simply states that "you were the registered keeper of the above vehicle on <date> at <time> when Parking Charge Notice (PCN) <xxxx> was issued...." Going on to say "At that time the vhecile was seen parking in PCM managed parking area....."

b) The "relevant land" is not properly identified. It just stats the name of a property which sounds like a block of flats. No street, town or postcode is give.

c) There is a separate issue in that I know the block of flats with that name where indeed there is PCM signage in the car park there. The signage is inadequate in various respects.

I have two question that I'd be very grateful for advice on:

Q1] For the purposes of my representation to PCM's NTK, do I just point out items a and b above?

If I start referring to the signs themselves then am I weakening my point about the inadequate specification of the relevant land? Alternatively do I say that if the NTK is meant to refer to a block of flats of which I am aware then the signage at that site is non-compliant with the IPC CoP?

Q2] Do you recommend I still use the template provided at the top of the newbie thread with the five points labelled a to e and if so do I include the two points I have highlighted above re the 'parking period' and 'relevant land" or should I leave these until the IAS appeal?

Many thanks,
Anthony

EnigmaPart1

If the driver is different to the owner use a service address

4consumerrights

Questions:

a) date of parking - did the NtK comply with POFA in that respect?

b) see from your previous thread there is a sign still around referring to clamping at the site in question?

The residents of this site should really get together and boot out the management company.


Two choices - do an IAS appeal as the RK - it would appear that some as none of PCM Ntk's are compliant under POFA.
Then if /when appeal is declined ignore PCM but make formal complaints to the SRA and TS regarding the Assessor and demand to know who the independent Adjudicator was.

If the RK is not the driver - do as Enigma above states and name the driver BUT AT A SERVICE address.

Coupon-mad

there is PCM signage in the car park there. The signage is inadequate in various respects.

Show us the sign please and stick to ONE thread. Is the sign a BPA or an IPC one? We need to see it as it may not be worth you appealing to the IAS as they are as much use as a chocolate fireguard (allegedly).

Apparently, if they are to be believed, at least one of their unnamed barristers cannot tell the difference between 'implied consent' and 'express consent' in contract law, and thinks that recent Consumer Directives from the EU only relate to utility bills and can be ignored unless there is case law to rely upon. Oh dear. You couldn't make it up - but someone there did...

AnthonyParkingPerson

In answer to the questions by others above:

- The NtK was compliant in that it stated the date and time when the PCN was issued. It did not however list the parking duration.

- Photo of the sign is at
"Http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/an...3598e.jpg.html&quot;
No mention of clamping.
A category A phrase seems to be missing.
Horrid use of capitals.
Main text states "PARKING IS PERMITTED FOR:"
No large text saying "Permit Holders Only"

Coupon-mad

Can't see the sign link (it's shortened so doesn't work) but your description of wording tells me it's an IPC sign. I wouldn't bother with IAS unless you can prove you weren't driving with evidence such as a witness statement. If not then just forget it and send PCM a 'Notice of Cancellation' as discussed on at least 2 other PCM threads today where people aren't bothering with the waste of time called IAS. You'll see what I mean in the other threads from today.

AnthonyParkingPerson

Thanks Coupon-mad. I have read the 'cancellation' stuff. It seems if I go down that route then it would involve identifying the driver as presumably that is who the contract is with. Is this right? If so then should I first pursue the invalid NtK route as the latter failed to specify the parking period and did not properly identify the location? Some advice on strategy would be greatly appreciated!

EnigmaPart1

AnthonyParkingPerson wrote: »

Thanks Coupon-mad. I have read the 'cancellation' stuff. It seems if I go down that route then it would involve identifying the driver as presumably that is who the contract is with. Is this right? If so then should I first pursue the invalid NtK route as the latter failed to specify the parking period and did not properly identify the location? Some advice on strategy would be greatly appreciated!

Your wasting your time

Name a driver, use a service address, job done, ticket gone.

AnthonyParkingPerson

Enigma - I'm sure you're being helpful but I must confess to not quite following you. I thought I had been following all the advice on the newbie thread. Why am I wasting my time? I must have missed something important. I also am struggling to find the stuff on the forum you are referring to re Service Address. Could you point me in the right direction please.

Many thanks in advance.

EnigmaPart1

AnthonyParkingPerson wrote: »

Enigma - I'm sure you're being helpful but I must confess to not quite following you. I thought I had been following all the advice on the newbie thread. Why am I wasting my time? I must have missed something important. I also am struggling to find the stuff on the forum you are referring to re Service Address. Could you point me in the right direction please.

Many thanks in advance.

Let me explain.

It is a waste of time appealing to the IAS. The newbie threads are not relevant to ipc tickets

A service address is basically thus:

You can either use a trusted friend or you can pay a company who provides such services to take the ticket of your hands for a small fee and then its gone.

You just have to name a driver. Its that simple

This is the new method of dealing with IPC tickets

Coupon-mad

It's ONE new method offered by Parking Ticket Appeals (aka EnigmaPart1). It works, it seems at the moment, but there's no 100% certainty it may not come back and bite drivers on the bum later on. Not saying it will, but I still feel that the keeper should not name the driver.

Hence I still leave the newbies thread saying that people are best protected IMHO, by being the 'keeper' not the driver. The Newbies thread is relevant to IAS tickets but not of the same view as PTA/EnigmaPart1. At the moment I am not changing the Newbies thread!

Thanks Coupon-mad. I have read the 'cancellation' stuff. It seems if I go down that route then it would involve identifying the driver as presumably that is who the contract is with. Is this right? If so then should I first pursue the invalid NtK route as the latter failed to specify the parking period and did not properly identify the location? Some advice on strategy would be greatly appreciated!

Nope I don't agree only the driver can cancel it. The point being that the PPC is holding you 'liable' for the 'contract' therefore in my armchair lawyer view (and EnigmaPart1 is another armchair lawyer!) I say the keeper can reject the contract. Remember this is all new, the legislation is new and untested but does you NO HARM to send a cancellation notice.

Like I said, I have seen so many shocking IAS decisions that I wouldn't bother to send one, where PCM have the right signs. Easier not to engage beyond the first appeal stage, then cancel. That's how I see it. If PCM try a small claim then at least they can't brandish a winning IAS appeal decision as evidence and also the keeper has the protection of showing that the POFA 2012 was not adhered to (e.g. flaws & omissions in the Notice to Keeper). No keeper liability. A driver can't use that argument and cannot point to flaws in the documents at all.