Strange court hearing: No car insurance, no warning letter

AshleyT

Hi guys,

I'm looking for advice into this matter. It's a little bit strange?

September I received, unexpectedly, a letter requesting my attendance at court for having no car insurance in the 5th of August.

This is entirely my fault through a lack of information or organisation. I was graduating, moving out of a flat(In scotland and i'm from London) and had left my car with only car tax at my mothers house(no MOT or insurance, under the impression that

- With car tax you do not need a SORN
- You cannot get car insurance without an MOT

I am now aware that the law updated in 2011 that means ALL cars must have insurance even if not driven. The car insurance expired on the 12th of June, I went to scotland to graduate and came back on 26th of July and within 2 weeks had an MOT/Insurance and was all good to go.

In October I attended the court hearing and expressed I didn't really understand; most people received a warning letter to tell them there is a problem and I received no warning letter to tell them they must get car insurance, pay a fixed penalty fee and if they still do not they will be called into court. I had no idea there was an issue.

The person looked at me confused I had not payed a fixed fine. Then they looked on the records and it said I paid a fixed fine in May for having no car insurance. Well, I had car insurance in May! I had car insurance for 11 months straight in May. There was no way I could have paid a fine because I would have never received one! Apparently because I received the fixed fine and PAID it(??), that was why I was given the court hearing with no warning.

I told them of course, this was not possible, I never paid a fine, I had car insurance, I never received a letter. So the court hearing was ajourned until they spoke to my previous insurer.

I've been told that the £100 fine I paid in May should be given back to me(!!!!!!? lol) and may be used as a contribution to my court case for not having insurance on the 5th of August.

I've received a new letter calling me back into court on the 12th to contend with not having insurance on the 5th of August. But if having a fixed fine was so important and no-one else gets pulled into court without a warning and I never received one, was unaware of these law changes and that I was even doing anything wrong.

I don't understand their case against me? It sounds like there's been a !!!! up on their system and without that !!!! up i'd never have been in court?

AdrianC

AshleyT wrote: »

- With car tax you do not need a SORN

Think of tax/SORN as two of the three possible "levels" of the same thing.

* Taxed. Costs money, allows you to drive your car on the road.
* SORNed. Free, doesn't allow you to have your car on the road.
* Unlicenced. Illegal.

- You cannot get car insurance without an MOT

Yes, you can. You can't buy tax without an MOT (if one's needed), and you can't have a taxed car that's not insured.

I don't understand their case against me?

Yes, you do. Their case is that your car was taxed but uninsured between 12th June and 26th July. That is illegal. It's also true. You are guilty as charged. Sorry, but...

It sounds like there's been a !!!! up on their system and without that !!!! up i'd never have been in court?

That's something you can introduce in mitigation, to try to minimise the penalty you'll receive. AFAIA, the law doesn't require a warning letter or a fixed penalty to be offered. There's no points involved.

BTW, if the car was parked on the road whilst uninsured, then that falls into using the car uninsured, which is MUCH more serious... Same for MOT, but less serious. If it was off the road, you could/should have SORNed it.

AshleyT

AdrianC wrote: »

Think of tax/SORN as two of the three possible "levels" of the same thing.

* Taxed. Costs money, allows you to drive your car on the road.
* SORNed. Free, doesn't allow you to have your car on the road.
* Unlicenced. Illegal.



Yes, you can. You can't buy tax without an MOT (if one's needed), and you can't have a taxed car that's not insured.



Yes, you do. Their case is that your car was taxed but uninsured between 12th June and 26th July. That is illegal. It's also true. You are guilty as charged. Sorry, but...



That's something you can introduce in mitigation, to try to minimise the penalty you'll receive. AFAIA, the law doesn't require a warning letter or a fixed penalty to be offered. There's no points involved.

BTW, if the car was parked on the road whilst uninsured, then that falls into using the car uninsured, which is MUCH more serious... Same for MOT, but less serious. If it was off the road, you could/should have SORNed it.

Hi Adrian, thanks so much for the clarity!

Let me add, i'm not trying to get out of this here . I'm aware that I am guilty of the offense even though I had incorrect information, the law is very clear and black and white.

If it was off the road, you could/should have SORNed it.

True; but I didn't think there was an issue if it was taxed(laws were changed in 2011, I was going on old laws). I know now of course this was not the case.

When I had checked the government website in June, I misread; the word "Tax" is mentioned 10 times, the word "insurance" is mentioned ONCE. It was an easy thing to do, esp because I have reading issues and it takes me a month to read a small book .

Information is not clear and I think i'll highlight this to them. The laws are updated and I don't own a TV, how was I meant to know? There must be a lot of others having this same issue here.

But i'm curious therefore why the court was adjourned if not paying/receiving a fixed penalty was not important and the law does not require it as you say? Shouldn't they have just continued there and then and sorted the May thing out later? They're giving me back £100 I never paid...it's not really honest for me to accept money that's not mine either!?

mirinda

Hi AshleyT,


No you are not the only one having problems with this new law. Last Saturday I received a further notice letter. Not having any idea what this was about I rang the number on the letter Monday morning to be told it was concerning an insurance issue that occurred July 2013 & went to court in Dec 2013! She gave me the address where previous correspondence had been sent & I have never lived at that address! Still none the wiser & now completely shocked & growing increasingly anxious ( I have never broken the law or been to court in my life) I rang the court where this had taken place to try & find out exactly what it was all about.


Was given an email address to write to as the lady who I spoke to couldn't help. Thursday I rang again as I hadn't heard anything, someone was going to call me back. Today, Sunday I still have heard nothing!


In the meantime I have been trying my best to work out what this could possibly be and have come to the conclusion that the reason must be this new law, which I had never heard of and like you thought SORN meant issues to do with car Tax not insurance.


While I was briefly out of work last year I let my insurance lapse, it was already taxed & I left it parked on our private driveway. Wouldn't of ever dreamed my car needed insurance while parked on the drive out of the publics way!


So assuming I have the right reason for my letter I have been criminally convicted of leaving my car parked on my private drive!!


Until the court bothers to get in touch with me I have no idea what I am supposed to do now or how I can clear my name and my criminal record. Think it is absolutely disgusting, I am certainly no criminal

forgotmyname

AshleyT wrote: »

Hi guys,

- With car tax you do not need a SORN
- You cannot get car insurance without an MOT

I am now aware that the law updated in 2011 that means ALL cars must have insurance even if not driven.

(Long post so just a quick note to clear the facts up.....)

The facts i quoted from your post... ALL WRONG!!!

No TAX or No Insurance = you must SORN if either expires. Not one or both. Either of them. No Tax = SORN, No insurance = SORN.

The 2011 change does NOT mean all cars must have insurance if not driven. Either insured and taxed or SORN'd.
If you dont want to tax or insure a vehicle you simply SORN it which costs nothing.



Miranda

So assuming I have the right reason for my letter I have been criminally convicted of leaving my car parked on my private drive!!

No you have been fined for not delcaring the vehicle SORN.

As per the reasons i put above. Its not exactly a new law 2011..

Rover_Driver

forgotmyname wrote: »

No you have been fined for not delcaring the vehicle SORN.

The offence is being the registered keeper of a vehicle that does not meet the insurance requirement - s.144A, Road Traffic Act 1988.


A SORN is just one of the exemptions - s.144B of the same act.

forgotmyname

Yeah but i was too lazy to type that