When does the transfer of the title of goods occur?

Karlosgoat

Hi
Very briefly, I bid for and won an item on Ebay which was advertised as collection only.
After the auction I contacted the seller and asked if I could send a courier for collection which he agreed.
While the item was awaiting collection from the seller garden it was stolen. I had paid for the item via bank transfer (I now know I should have used PayPal!). The item was £1000.
The seller is refusing to refund as he says its my responsibility for collection.


My question is on a point of law. When does the transfer of the title of goods come to me (the buyer)? Is it when I receive the item or when the seller leaves it out for collection?


Any help would be appreciated!

usefulmale

In my opinion, and I stress it's just my opinion, title passes when you have paid.

But leaving something apparently worth 1000 pounds in the garden?

Karlosgoat

Thank you Usefulmale but I am wanting to know what the law says on the matter?
I know it seems ridiculous to leave the item but he couldn't wait in for the courier.

StumpyPumpy

Karlosgoat wrote: »

Thank you Usefulmale but I am wanting to know what the law says on the matter?
I know it seems ridiculous to leave the item but he couldn't wait in for the courier.

If you want to know what the law says you need to ask a lawyer, not a random, anonymous forum on the Internet.

soolin

Karlosgoat wrote: »

Thank you Usefulmale but I am wanting to know what the law says on the matter?
I know it seems ridiculous to leave the item but he couldn't wait in for the courier.

I suspect if you want t get anywhere with this that you will eventually need legal advice. Just being given opinions by us lot on here won't help you as whatever we say you will have to go to small claims if you want a stab at getting recompense.

Avoriaz

Maybe I'm just an old cynic but this story does not ring true.

glentoran99

I think you've been scammed, very expensive lesson to learn,

RFW

glentoran99 wrote: »

I think you've been scammed, very expensive lesson to learn,

I'd be inclined to agree with that.

There isn't a hard & fast rule as to the passing of title, it would depend on the agreement you came to.

If the item was stolen then it should have been reported to the police. If the seller hasn't done that, then the buyer would have to. At the very least they would find out if the seller is telling the truth and what you would do from there. It's improbable and highly unlikely, but if it is a genuine theft, there's an outside chance you could be covered by your own insurance, so that's worth a call if/when you get a crime number.

£1000 collection item via bank transfer is going to be very difficult to get any money back.

harveybobbles

Sounds like the OP has been scammed.

Not sure why the OP is asking about title.. If (by law) title has passed to the buyer, then what?

Phone the police..

OP: "hello, I'd like to report theft of a £1000 item.."
Police: "Oh dear, what happened..?"
OP: "It got left in someones front garden, whom I've never met before and now its gone.."
Police: "Erm.." *drops phone with laughter*

tyllwyd

Isn't there a rule that the person in possession of the item has to take reasonable care of it even if it doesn't belong to them? I saw on Judge Judy (!) a case where someone was looking after a backpack for someone else but left it with a third party and it got lost - Judge Judy said they were liable. Obviously that's not a reliable guide to the law but it might be worth finding out if there is a case against the seller.

RFW

tyllwyd wrote: »

Isn't there a rule that the person in possession of the item has to take reasonable care of it even if it doesn't belong to them? I saw on Judge Judy (!) a case where someone was looking after a backpack for someone else but left it with a third party and it got lost - Judge Judy said they were liable. Obviously that's not a reliable guide to the law but it might be worth finding out if there is a case against the seller.

Getting the £1000 back is going to be difficult whatever the law. I'd agree that a seller would have a duty of care unless he has stated otherwise. The seller could have told the buyer that he'll leave it outside for the courier if the courier didn't arrive within an allotted time.
I've bought and paid for items at auction and, depending on the sale, you will be given a time to have collected by. After that time it is no longer their responsibility to look after it. Years ago I was stuck in traffic after a pretty big armed robbery trying to get to an auction to pick up a final load of stock. We were late getting there and they had put 20 odd pallets out in the street.

The law is usually flexible and allows for reasonable behaviour. So if I sell someone a Bentley and they do a bank transfer, I wouldn't be expected to leave it unattended, unlocked and with the engine running.

I doubt any of this matters in this case, if the seller says they aren't responsible (whether they're pulling a scam or not), OP won't get any money back without outside intervention.