Divorced Landlords - dispute over rent

ziziban

Evening,

I'm in a bit of a tricky situation with my landlord(s) and just looking for other people's opinions please.

Moved into a rented property in October 2013, and cardinal sin I know I have never had nor signed a tenancy agreement (whether AST or otherwise). At the time when I moved in, all contact was with Mrs X and whilst her circumstances were never specifically discussed it came across that she was single and ran the property business on her own - although the bank account details I was given for the payment of rent were for a joint account Mr and Mrs X.


Fast forward perhaps 10 months, and I became aware of Mr X properly - it turns out he actually lives in the same street as me, although he had been away for the preceding 10 months as he also has property abroad (according to what he told me). It was also explained to me at this stage that he and his wife were divorcing, although this shouldn't impact on my property as they were continuing to rent the properties out together.

Now another fast forward to last week, when out of the blue I (along with other tenants in the building - as it's a house converted into s/c flats) received a text message from Mr X which read as follows -

"To all tenants, all bank payments must be paid into the account that you are paying into at the moment you must not change that method of payment even if myself or my ex wife ask you to do so any change or missed payments will mean a notice been served on you"

I had an inkling that this may be pre-empting something, and I was right. As on Friday I received a telephone call from Mrs X telling me that the house is owned by her in her own name, and the mortgage is in her name, therefore with immediate effect all rent must be paid to her directly. She has asked for either cash or payments into her bank account (different to the joint acc) and has said she will provide a new tenancy agreement for all tenants...although I don't think any of us have one at present. She has also offered to show us the deeds are in her name. And is saying she is unable to pay the mortgage on the property a she cannot access the rent money being paid into the joint acc.

I didn't commit either way during the call, but then telephoned Mr X to advise that after his text message I had been instructed to do the opposite of what he requested. He advised that they are actually divorced now, the absolute has been pronounced, however finances are still being settled - and that until they are all payments should go into their joint account. That no matter who's name is on the deeds or the mortgage, the property is still a joint asset until the finances are sorted.

I have also since received a text message from Mrs X telling me to keep the text where Mr X tells me he will give notice, and a further text message from Mr X to the effect that his ex is trying to get us all to sign new agreements based on what he believes are old documents, and telling us to seek advice before we do anything further. He makes a comment that we legally have 7 days to seek advice and read any paperwork before being required to sign it...

As my rent is paid weekly, and had already been paid on Friday when this all started, I have until Friday to decide who I am paying - and I'm really not sure what to do for the best! I don't want to get dragged into their divorce arguments, and just want to pay my rent to whoever should receive it, and not return home to find the locks changed and my possessions out in the rain! Any advice greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

princeofpounds

Evening. Try not to worry too much, in many ways this is more their problem than yours; you just need to make sure you pay your landlord (the question is who!) and they can fight between themselves for the money if necessary. You just need to protect yourself as best you can.

Firstly, even though you signed no tenancy agreement you still have a perfectly valid tenancy. It will be a basic AST as defined by law.

Secondly, pay nothing to a new account without WRITTEN instructions from your landlord (who can write those instructions is the question). Also when you do pay, do so with a paper trail, preferably electronically. No cash in hand.

Now, important questions:

1) Who owns the property? You can get the land registry title for 3 quid online.
2) Who did you agree the tenancy with initially? Presumably Mrs X?

ali_hire

As you have no written tenancy they (either of them) have presumably not provided you with an address in E&W for the service of notices. Therefore no rent is lawfully due.

However, do not take that as 'you can live there rent free'.

In your situation I would do the following;

1. Land registry search the title deeds for the property to ascertain who the legal owner is.

2. Write to both of them to advise that you have done this and you understand that the legal owner is X.

3. Advise in the same letter that, as no written tenancy has been ever been presented and no address has been given, you will be holding the rent in a separate account until such time as the person on the title deed provides you with the required address.

ziziban

Thanks princeofpounds.

I'm not unduly worried just want to make sure that I do what I can to keep myself squeaky clean - and as you say let them fight it amongst themselves!

As for your questions -

I haven't actually done a new land registry search myself yet (off to do it now, to be sure) however there doesn't appear to be any dispute that the property is owned in Mrs X's name.

I originally agreed the tenancy with Mrs X.

And to clarify, Mrs X is named on the account I am currently paying in to (it's Mr and Mrs X) - however she wants me to change this to a new account in her sole name. Mr X wants me to keep paying into the joint account.

Thanks again for your help

ziziban

Thanks ali_hire

You're right, I don't actually have a formal document giving me an address for notices. I know Mr X's address, as it is a few doors down the road - however I have never actually had an address for Mrs X.

Off to do that land registry search now, for certainly on that point at least.

princeofpounds

Therefore no rent is lawfully due.

To avoid confusion, this is true. But the rent (including any unpaid) will become due when the address is provided. Not paying your rent may still upset your LL but you cannot get into trouble legally for withholding it at the moment.

ziziban

Ok, a quick land registry search reveals that the property as a whole building is owned by Mrs X, in her sole name and free from any mortgage/charge (interesting, as she is saying she cannot pay the mortgage on it).

It's a leasehold house, which has subsequently been sub-divided into 5 flats - the 5 flats are listed separately on the land registry, but there is no separate title available to download for each.

The address given on the title is the address where Mr X now lives (presumably the former matrimonial home).

stator

Wow, what an awful situation. I don't know the legal situation, but definitely get everything in writing. If you need independent advice try phoning the Shelter helpline, see if they have any ideas.
Withholding rent may be legally your right, but once everything is sorted out you still need to have a relationship and don't want to be evicted I pressume

ziziban

Absolutely right stator - to be honest I have no real preference whether that relationship is with Mr, Mrs or both of them together - I just don't want to "back the wrong horse" so to speak at this stage and then find myself out on my ear once things are settled.

I've made a point of keeping and printing copies of all text messages, along with the land registry title I have just obtained.


My own gut feeling is to keep paying as I have been, as I know it's a joint account in both names, however that is contrary to the wishes of Mrs who it seems currently owns it in her own name (obviously this could change though as part of the divorce settlement) - if I ignore her wishes now and the finances are settled, with her retaining this property, it is highly likely that I would find myself with notice to leave.

May well give the Shelter number a call tomorrow, for their opinion too. Cheers

stef73

I might be wrong and if i am i will delete the tread to stop confusion and someone with more knowledge on this will know this.
Do you still have to have a rent book for weekly paid rent? If so who is signing your rent book every week?

princeofpounds

Yes, you are supposed to have a rent book as well. But that's not central to this case.

OK, thanks for checking on the land registry. So Mrs X is the owner, AND she is the person you contracted with. She is clearly your LL, in my opinion. Despite the fact that you pay into a joint account, you have no legal relationship with Mr X.

However, Mrs X verbally instructing you to do something different is not acceptable. You need to tell her in writing (follow up to a call if you like) to notify you in writing of her new preferred payment method, and also provide an address for the service of notices.

Personally I would withhold rent until then, because a) it is your leverage to get a proper address and b) it also provides you with a little time in case a new piece of evidence pops up that changes the way you may wish to direct rent.

As for Mr X, you need to tell him, also in writing, that on inspection the title and the tenancy agreement you have are both in the name of/agreed with Mrs X and that following taking advice you have to pay her as instructed, once she instructs you to do something different in writing.

If he can provide any evidence (with all communication in writing) that he has become owner of the property, or that he and Mrs X have reached a different compromise, then you will review the situation. You realise that this is a difficult situation for them but in light of conflicting messages your priority is to meet your contractual obligations.

Personally I would also be looking at changing the lock barrel. You don't want Mr X locking you out in anger.

In a nutshell, that is what I would do anyway. Others may have different opinions.

As for not having a mortgage - Mrs X is probably lying about this to pressurise you into payin her. They sound like a right pair.