No reponse to PCN/NTK appeal - huge mess

orwelowl

Hi,

Hope I'm posting this in the right place - fingers crossed.

Condensing a long story:

Works car park, free parking for employees.
Had a very busy day in March - 6 of us parked safely, but outside bays.
All got PCNs from Operator
Noticed that PCNs said 'IPC' but signs said 'Approved BPA operator'
Over 100 days after PCN, all 6 received NTK
We all appealed to operator on basis of signs saying one thing but operator doing another, length of time between PSN and NTK, but included stuff about 'genuine pre-estimate of loss etc'.
2 weeks later, all signs in car park changed.
About 3 months after appeal - all 6 received solicitor's letter - but no response to appeal?
Contacted operator and IPC to complain
Operator 'received block of appeals from one company at your location but didn't log them on our system - sent them to our Client instead' (this later changed to 'sent to our managment team'.)
Operator cancelled (gesture of 'good will') 4 tickets (conveniently everyone who had kept their recorded delivery ticket).
For the remaining two without a recorded delivery ticket they're saying they didn't receive the appeals? (Mine's one of the cancelled one's)

1) Advice to everyone - keep your recorded delivery tickets forever
2) Does anyone have any advice about what to do next. I've emailed the IPC but I'm not entirely convined about their 'independence' as they conveniently live next to the solciitors.

Regards

L

Coupon-mad

Yep the two people with the PCNs outstanding just need to sit tight and if the IPC can't be bothered to make their AOS member consider the appeals then the victims should ignore any debt collector letters. If a real 'letter before claim' is issued to them, or court papers, they need to start their own threads here for help with the defence. No need for a solicitor, this is small claims (if the PPC bothers to try) and we can help advise as we are used to these claims.

Hope those two have pics of the signs as they were, in case they need to defend in small claims? And give them for their files, a copy of the fact the PPC cancelled 4 of them randomly, and any other evidence others managed to gather that may help in a hearing.

I've emailed the IPC but I'm not entirely convinced about their 'independence' as they conveniently live next to the solicitors.

We know - and we agree with your doubts! Also bear in mind the IPC probably won't deal with you because these two are NOT your PCNs so you are a third party. The 2 remaining victims need to handle this and come here for help. They need to start their own threads but really only if they get a Letter before Claim (from Gladstones) and if they already have that, then they do need to formally respond.

Response to a LBC explained here:

Parking - Letter Before County Court Claim (LBCCC) - Fight back! Guidance Thread

HTH

orwelowl

Hi

Thank you very much for your reply.

Both the chaps who did not manage to get their PCNs cancelled have received 'letter before claim' - in fact all six of us did with no response to our appeals.

I have prepared a letter to Gladstones stating that the Protection of Freedoms act does not apply because of the very late Notice to keeper and that they shoudl supply evidence of who the driver was. In fact I've told them that their letter before claim is wrong to assert that the keeper was liable as, in my opinion, because of the late notice to keeper then actually the driver would be liable.

I've also mentioned the original (conveniently missing) appeal.

Any help greatly appreciated

Regards

L

Coupon-mad

You can't handle this nor deal with Gladstones. The chaps will have to read the LBCCC Fightback thread themselves and put their name to a response (with your help by all means) but in their name.

orwelowl

Thanks for your help.

Yes, of course this all has to be handled by my affected colleagues. I'd just like to assist them as I feel a bit guilty that I was one of the one's let off (because I kept my recorded delivery stub for the appeal to operator).

We've prepared a letter that uses a lot of the LBCCC thread, and I've also cited the Protection of Freedoms act specifically (the fact that they had 57 days but were over 100 days) and in fact even asked Gladstones why they themselves had no figured this out? I've also mentioned that the operator says the appeal wasn,t received, but has admitted that 4 others were received but neither responded to nor logged onto their 'appeal received log'.

Is this the right approach?

One further thing --- they have stated the keeper, I'll call him Mr Y, is liable. He could only be liable if the POFA has been complied with, and it hasn't. Isn't there an obligation (due diligence) for the solicitors to have noticed this and not issued a statement they should know to be false (the statement being that the keeper is liable). In light of the obvious and significant flaw in their case, if they continue to pursue this would it constitute harassment, and could we issue them with a 'letter before claim'?

Regards

L

Coupon-mad

One further thing --- they have stated the keeper, I'll call him Mr Y, is liable. He could only be liable if the POFA has been complied with, and it hasn't. Isn't there an obligation (due diligence) for the solicitors to have noticed this and not issued a statement they should know to be false (the statement being that the keeper is liable). In light of the obvious and significant flaw in their case, if they continue to pursue this would it constitute harassment, and could we issue them with a 'letter before claim'?

Yes you have a point - include it in your colleagues' letter - but better to say you will report them to the SRA if they persist in sending letters that suggest a keeper is liable when even a cursory glance at the facts and dates, shows their client has missed that boat by about 50 days.

Which PPC?

orwelowl

It was C*mprehensive Managmenet Services.

I'm not impressed by them at all. Ignoring SIX appeal letters, sending all the NTKs 100 days after ticketing the cars, letting off 4 appealants and continuing to persue 2 of them.

Thanks for your help

L

ampersand

Just a point re:

' I'd just like to assist them as I feel a bit guilty that I was one of the one's let off (because I kept my recorded delivery stub for the appeal to operator)', orwel,

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you infer this was a contributing factor to your successful appeal. It wasn't, be assured. It was irrelevant.

In fact, we strictly advise against sending anything RD, because it allows addressee/recipient co. to refuse acceptance.

A 1st-class stamped letter with free PO c.o.p. is deemed delivered within 48 hrs.

Coupon-mad

orwelowl wrote: »

It was C*mprehensive Managmenet Services.

I'm not impressed by them at all. Ignoring SIX appeal letters, sending all the NTKs 100 days after ticketing the cars, letting off 4 appealants and continuing to persue 2 of them.

Thanks for your help

L

Never heard of them trying a small claim.

orwelowl

Very grateful for the help we've received. Still a little nervy on colleagues' behalf.

So six of us got NtKs after 100 days, 6 appealed, no responses to appeal, 6 got letter before claims, four has the charges cancelled following a telephone complaint and now they unlucky two have sent responses to Gladstones. The response is principally 'stop it - you've lost your right to pursue me, the keeper, and you've let 4 people off but not me'

I guess we just sit tight? Have we done everything right?

L

Coupon-mad

Yep, sit tight now the unlucky 2 have responded to Gladstones.