Advice re joint tenancy and broken relationship

mrs_motivated

Hi, sorry to hear about your relative, he is in a difficult situation.

As his wife has ended the joint tenancy on the current house and he does not fit the size criteria to stay there, the council will want him out. If he stays he will become 'lodger in posession' and the will evict. However they will work with him to find a 1 bedroom property and grant him a sole tenancy.

What interests me is you say his wife's new tenancy is also joint? With who? If it is with your relative he can move there with her. I appreciate this is not ideal, but if she obtained this joint tenancy with the intention of only her and the child long there, it's a contrived tenancy.

Pixie5740

Cautious_Optimist wrote: »

So what would he gain by willingly leaving, rather than waiting for the bailiffs to turn up?

It may not be that short notice;
OP doesn't mention whether the council have got an eviction order or a possession order yet.
It could be six months before the bailiffs turf him out, especially if he shows up to the court each time with a sob story...

Presumably there's no S21 notice applicable, as this is not an AST..?

I would certainly not be giving up so easily...

There is no section 21. Even if this was a private rental with an AST there would have been no section 21 as the tenant, joint tenants that is, has ended the tenancy. The joint tenants now have a new tenancy agreement for a new, larger, council property. The OP's family member has joint and several liability for this new tenancy so, as awkward as it may be, he should move into the new property with his wife and child even if he's just Kipling on the sofa. That will give him a roof over his head and time to be removed from the joint tenancy and find a new home all whilst maintaining regular contact with his daughter.

G_M

Pixie5740 wrote: »

... Where is he going to find a new single parent GF at short notice.......

http://www.singlemumsanddads.co.uk/singleparents/?utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=homepage&utm_term=single%20parent%20dating

theartfullodger

The law on who gets what rights regarding housing after relationship breakdown is complicated and tricky:

Best to read Shelter's booklet,
http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/23393/ShelterGuide_RelationshipBreakdown.pdf
(Sorry, 48 pages - I said it was complicated...)
then - and only then - 'phone them for more advice on their helpline 0808 800 4444

It is quite possible Council do not understand the rules in this area (nor all posters on free forums on't t'InterWeb...)

Good luck!

pinkshoes

Unless he can cancel the new tenancy and insist on the old one being reinstated, then he should just move into this new home.

If his wife wants out of the relationship, then perhaps he can have the new house with main parental responsibility, then the wife can move out and find somewhere else.

If i were him, i would make it very clear i was not moving out the family home.

dottydora

Hi thank you so much for the replies, just to clarify a few things. I went with "family member" to the council. Pixie is mostly right.They currently have joint tenancy on property 1. They applied as joints tenants for property 2 but some time later wife decided she wanted to end marriage and asked housing association to make single application which they did. We went to council to find out where this left "family member".
He was advised that housing association was acting unlawfully and they have now made the agreement joint. Family member prefers property 1 but has no right to remain as wife is about to ed tenancy on property 1 and there is nothing he can do to prevent this despite being an equal tenant. He has to move with her to protect his position on the housing register otherwise he is considered making himself intentionally homeless. When he moves they will talk about supporting him. He will have his daughter 3 nights one week and 4 the next and his wife vice versa. He will not be entitled to claim anything relating to his child as his wife will be. So from what I can gather he will be highly unlikely to be a priority on councils list, unable on his low income to afford more than a Bedsit and council housing will treat him as a single male under 35 meaning any help is minimal. Pretty much he's got a raw deal where he'll get no help, no home, has to pay (which he wants to do) even though they agree 50/50 custody yet she gets a brand new house, enough benefits not to work and luxury of time spent with child. All seems so unfair. Although I do get that the council cannot provide nice 2 bed houses to both parties each time relationships breakdown, but it just seems that he has no rights whatsoever. He knows he has to move to the new property with her btw.

Cautious_Optimist

mrs_motivated wrote: »

Hi, sorry to hear about your relative, he is in a difficult situation.

As his wife has ended the joint tenancy on the current house and he does not fit the size criteria to stay there, the council will want him out. If he stays he will become 'lodger in posession' and the will evict. However they will work with him to find a 1 bedroom

I don't think they will evict him and new GF and child(rent) into a one bedroom flat.

Yes, the council will want him / them out, but will the court agree?

I would still push it and see what happens. He has nothing to lose.

Cautious_Optimist

dottydora wrote: »

Hi thank you so much for the replies, just to clarify a few things. I went with "family member" to the council. Pixie is mostly right.They currently have joint tenancy on property 1. They applied as joints tenants for property 2 but some time later wife decided she wanted to end marriage and asked housing association to make single application which they did. We went to council to find out where this left "family member".
He was advised that housing association was acting unlawfully and they have now made the agreement joint. Family member prefers property 1 but has no right to remain as wife is about to ed tenancy on property 1 and there is nothing he can do to prevent this despite being an equal tenant. He has to move with her to protect his position on the housing register otherwise he is considered making himself intentionally homeless. When he moves they will talk about supporting him. He will have his daughter 3 nights one week and 4 the next and his wife vice versa. He will not be entitled to claim anything relating to his child as his wife will be. So from what I can gather he will be highly unlikely to be a priority on councils list, unable on his low income to afford more than a Bedsit and council housing will treat him as a single male under 35 meaning any help is minimal. Pretty much he's got a raw deal where he'll get no help, no home, has to pay (which he wants to do) even though they agree 50/50 custody yet she gets a brand new house, enough benefits not to work and luxury of time spent with child. All seems so unfair. Although I do get that the council cannot provide nice 2 bed houses to both parties each time relationships breakdown, but it just seems that he has no rights whatsoever. He knows he has to move to the new property with her btw.

So what's the plan?
Move in to new house with unfriendly wife?
You're right, he will be completely screwed over, IF he leaves the social property (council or HA).

That's why I would advise sit tight, get new GF and kids in, speak to Shelter for INDEPENDENT advice ASAP.
Council are not independent advisors; their "gatekeeper" role introduces a conflict of interest.

I would let the council push it to the court to evict.
He has nothing to lose by this course of action.
If they are going to evict anyway, I would make it as prolonged, costly and difficult for them as possible...
With any luck, the council will decide it's not worth their time and money and leave him and new GF in the old house.

If he moves into new house with unfriendly wife, my bet is the depressing situation will have him leave pretty soon.
He'll be in a bedsit before you know it.
Then no woman will touch him with a barge pole.

As a "man with house", he's still got a bit of "currency" with the ladies.

I would also apply for FULL custody of the child and tell the council that is the plan. Obviously he's unlikely to get full custody, but it may delay and disrupt the council's plans to evict.

With any luck, the council will take the path of least resistance and leave him and GF in the house...

Cautious_Optimist

Pixie5740 wrote: »

time to be removed from the joint tenancy and find a new home

He will end up stuck in a bedsit.
Why move out without a possession order?
I would sit tight and wait for the bailiffs...

Pixie5740

Hmm not sure why the OP has deleted the original post. I assume that dottydora and mollygrub are related. This family member and his wife aren't equal tenants (no such thing) they are joint tenants so it only takes one of them to end a tenancy and each of them is liable for the whole rent as there isn't his share and her share which is why he should remain in the (new) home until this is sorted out.

I'm glad their family member isn't going to be homeless. Whilst it's not ideal continuing to live with someone after a relationship has broken down at least he'll get to see his daughter.