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Grandmother losing EVERYTHING!

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Comments

  • jabba42 wrote: »
    I would hide everything I could from the government too in her situation. Her grandmother paid into the system all her life so why not get something at the end?

    This is such a toxic misunderstanding of the system. The way that the system works (benefits, healthcare, pension etc.) means that the high value tax payers (rich people) are heavily subsidising the average person. The majority of people are a net loss for the country, the amount of tax the average person pays in their life will never cover the cost of that person to the state. The only people who could safely apply that argument ("I've paid enough tax to get free care...") are the people who wouldn't need it: rich people.

    To illustrate this, consider the following: If every person in the bottom 75% of earners in this country disappeared today there would be a positive impact on taxation. The OPs grandmother has almost certainly cost the state many times more than she has ever contributed.
  • margaretclare
    margaretclare Posts: 10,789 Forumite
    I didn't get the impression that the old lady is being asked much for her opinions and wishes. That she "had to be put into a home" because of slight dementia and some falls makes me shudder. It's good to hear that she is in "the best home possible" now, and I hope she agrees. I find it very disturbing, however, that the emphasis of the OP seems to be on securing the grandma's house for his father's inheritance.

    I completely agree with this, and I too shudder at the terminology used. The OP very soon becomes impatient and insulting when he's challenged.

    Maybe it's because I'm approaching Gran's age-group that I feel so sensitive about this type of inconsiderate terminology. Gran would still have been a schoolgirl when I was born. I realise that, for the young, that's as far back as the Battle of Hastings, but we are still alive, still have a life to live, have choices and opinions and wish to live life to the full whilst we still have it.
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
  • princeofpounds
    princeofpounds Posts: 10,396 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker

    Jabba, whilst I happen to agree with many of the Daily Mail conclusions about the pension system, in terms of general direction, the article is highly, highly, highly disingenuous.

    All it really means is that contributions to the national insurance fund will decrease below the levels of payouts from the fund.

    The national insurance fund is not an investment fund, a big pool of assets that produces a return that covers payouts (THAT is a funded pension).

    It is basically just a cash management account, where money flows in and gets paid out. It has a bit of a float of course, but that's about £19bn compared to an annual budget of ~£150bn for DWP (and many pension-type benefits aren't even paid by them).

    The money that flows in is basicaly just NI receipts (minus a bit that goes to the NHS and pays for a small proportion of its budget). The money that flows out is certain types of pension benefits, but not all.

    So the government is going to have to find another type of revenue to cover the shortfall, which will be general taxation.

    Given that NI is hardly distinguishable from income tax, and that several pension benefits, like pension credit, are already paid out of general taxation, then in practice this 'raiding of the tax system' happened long ago.

    Now of course we can consider the state pension on a proper actuarial basis, totting up the value of all its future liabilities into their value at the present time and comparing them to the value of future NI contributions. If there is a conceptual 'national pension fund', it is basically that, with any gap assumed to be backed by government guarantee from general taxation (or, more pertinently, proceeds generated by more government debt).

    Of course there is a massive mismatch and problem on this basis, and pensioners are being given much more than we can afford.

    We do live in a vampire society where the older generations have written themselves a big fat cheque to be paid by their children. Not just on pensions, but on sovereign debt and on commercial debt (which funds extra income in dividends) as well.

    But the crunch point where the cash itself dries up is still not here yet, at least as far as pensions go. So the article is all a bit meaningless, and there is no funded national pension 'fund' at all.
  • dawyldthing
    dawyldthing Posts: 3,438 Forumite
    The other option is to either move her in with you, or you move in with her and give her the support she requires. We moved my nan in just over 2 years ago as we were worried about her health and safety and it works out best all round. Then you and your dad would still keep the inheritance, but would mean you have to change your lifestyle to accommodate your nan moving in or you moving in with her
    :T:T :beer: :beer::beer::beer: to the lil one :) :beer::beer::beer:
  • kidmugsy
    kidmugsy Posts: 12,709 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    jabba42 wrote: »

    Dear God, why link to some child journalist? If you want to persuade me that the pension fund isn't a fiction, just point me to its list of shareholdings, and so forth. But you can't - it doesn't exist.

    There is no pension fund, there is no national insurance fund... they are fictions.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
  • No need to get all you're knickers in a twist everyone.

    She has had several falls and has broken her hip etc. at home.

    It was hard for my father to sit at home and constantly worry.

    We put (what term would you like me to use?,inserted,accomodaton,...?) her into a home to see how she would get on.After a week she wanted to go home.

    We said OK and took her home.

    She lasted 3 days and SHE said she wanted to return to the home.She was also throwing bits of sweet papers into the fire when we went to see her which obviously was a big concern.
    We see her every week/twice and she has several friends now in the home and seems to be getting on as well as she can.

    It was only a question to see if we had any other options.
    In no way were we going to move her into a crappy state home as somebody mentioned.It was just to see whether we could get any assistance whatsoever.

    Please no more moral judgements on inheriting money from parents aimed at my good father.

    Thankyou all who have been rational.
  • sparrer
    sparrer Posts: 7,548 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker I've been Money Tipped!
    A very few posters on this thread make me very cross. In the not too distant future I will need residential care due to a chronic illness, and having worked and saved for most of my adult life I expect to pay for my care. I'm fortunate to live in a country with the NHS so I have already had quite a lot of benefit from that service. My children work hard and pay tax so it would be wrong of me to take back that tax for my own use, they may need it themselves one day, likewise they don't want my money for their own pleasure.

    I worked in elderly care for 30+ years and sadly am not surprised or shocked at some people's selfishness and their expectations of their older relatives. What a very sad situation.
  • brendon
    brendon Posts: 514 Forumite
    colsten wrote: »
    Though from what has been posted by the OP, I didn't get the impression that the old lady is being asked much for her opinions and wishes.

    That's probably because this is a Money Saving forum. She come here to ask a question, not to share her life story.
  • Deneb
    Deneb Posts: 421 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    It was only a question to see if we had any other options.

    Have you considered a car home annuity? You would pay a fixed sum in exchange for a guarantee that the provider would meet (most of) the care home fees for the rest of your grandmother's life. I say most of because I believe there is a ceiling on the maximum fee increases that they will meet each year, so potentially the possibility remains that she might need to find some additional funding at some stage to meet any difference.

    We recently went down that route with my MIL and the costs are not unreasonable IMO. It has the advantage that you know the residue of her estate less the premium is protected from future care home costs. The one we took out will also return a percentage of the premium to the estate on a sliding scale, in the unfortunate event of death within the first three years.

    For my MIL it has meant that she has more money to use as she wishes, since she no longer has to worry whether she might need it all in future to to pay her fees.
  • jem16
    jem16 Posts: 19,728 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Please no more moral judgements on inheriting money from parents aimed at my good father.

    My judgement (and I suspect that of many others) was not aimed at your father who probably knew nothing of this thread.
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