Windscreen ticket from PCM (UK)

Tootalltom

First ever post here, a brave move!

I have read through the forums regarding ignoring the windscreen "ticket" and waiting for the notice to keeper.

The windscreen "ticket" was for parking without clearly displaying a valid permit. The permit was in the car but had slipped 3/4 below the windscreen and was not fully visible at the time which I agree with and that the photos viewable online show this too.

However!

The windscreen "ticket" was issued stating I was parked at site name: Blabla Close. When in fact the name of the property and associated car park is Blabla Court. This is in big letters on the front of the building but not in the car park to the side.

Just wondering and would like advice from the many knowledgeable people if to still wait for the NTK and challenge with the incorrect site name or do I challenge it as the keeper now only with a windscreen "ticket"?

I also understand that appeals through the IAS are not as easy as POPLA.

Any advice guidance or requests for information would be greatly received.

Many thanks in advance!

Coupon-mad

Hmmmm...I have thought about this and I reckon you should wait till the first 20 days are nearly up then send PCM the template first appeal in the Newbies thread, with an additional point:

F) The driver tells me this PCN related to a car park called Blabla Court. Yet the PCN states 'Blabla Close' so it is factually incorrect. What is your comment on this error which is fatal to a Council PCN? What is the rule as far as your PCN is concerned?


I nearly posted to say wait for the NTK but I am hoping that, by you raising this now at an earlier stage, PCM might try to cover their tracks by changing the future correspondence to read 'Blabla Court'. Which will give you more grounds for IAS appeal. Don't rush, just make sure PCM receive the appeal before day 21 - but not too early. There's a reason for delaying.

While you wait a couple of weeks to get there, take some pics of the signs. We need to see the wording (v important).

Tootalltom

Many thanks coupon-mad. I shall take photos in daylight tomorrow of all signs and post them here with hxxp broken links.

Just to clarify if I reply with "the driver tells me etc" does that not open up the issue of the keeper not knowing the driver and not having to declare?

Also the vehicle is registered at the very same address where it was parked. I have the windscreen ticket which clearly states close as does the online evidence. Even the evidence photos are time and date stamped with close not court. I wonder if they dropped the ball here...

Coupon-mad

Just to clarify if I reply with "the driver tells me etc" does that not open up the issue of the keeper not knowing the driver and not having to declare?

No because this isn't a Police NIP - you do not have to declare who was driving. The House of Commons (during the reading of the POFA Bill) stopped short of that 'power' for PPCs even though the suited prats at the BPA tried hard to get it for their money-grabbing AOS members.

Tootalltom

As promised here are the 3 signs, from what I can see they are all identical. hxxp://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/ihavesize16feet/20141015_154718_zpsdce1b491.jpg
hxxp://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/ihavesize16feet/20141015_154808_zps4eb4a810.jpg
hxxp://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/ihavesize16feet/20141015_154746_zpsc8c336ef.jpg

The last photo is the same sign that was photographed in the evidence they took, equally covered with a small wig!

I believe they do breach the letter height rules in the IPC code of practice I also believe they are above the 6 foot guidance max height and angle of first sign for approach into the car park, however I will save those for any IAS appeal I think.

I have read through the IPC code of practice and this states that the notice to driver must state the land where the vehicle was parked.

Part C 2.1 (c) Specify the vehicle and the land on which it was parked.

I would say that this was the issue with the NTD and will press on that part if appealing after the initial delayed first stage appeal.

There is also a sign at the entrance which clearly states Blabla Court residents parking. The "Operative" would have driven or walked past one of two signs telling them where they where...

Coupon-mad

More important for a keeper appealing in a case where the driver has not been admitted, is that not specifying the land breaches the law (POFA 2012) and means there is no keeper liability. But then again if they fail to serve a NTK that means there's no keeper liability anyway - which is what you hope by waiting until the last minute to appeal. 20 days will have elapsed, then PCM may take another 20 days to reply (you hope) then you will have another similar period to get the IAS appeal in. By the time the IAS consider it you want to have reached or be very near to day 56 (too late for a NTK!).

Tootalltom

I am writing the letter as I type. It occurred to me that the template in the sticky does not contain reference to my (the keeper) address. I presume this is correct as challenging as the registered keeper not as the driver and they can find my address via DVLA. Plus this takes extra work and time etc? All helping to spin things out a little more. Letter needs to be posted tomorrow as today is 21 days! Woops!

Thanks in advance.

EnigmaPart1

Tootalltom wrote: »

I am writing the letter as I type. It occurred to me that the template in the sticky does not contain reference to my (the keeper) address. I presume this is correct as challenging as the registered keeper not as the driver and they can find my address via DVLA. Plus this takes extra work and time etc? All helping to spin things out a little more. Letter needs to be posted tomorrow as today is 21 days! Woops!

Thanks in advance.

I wouldnt waste your time.

Tootalltom

EnigmaPart1 wrote: »

I wouldnt waste your time.

Not exactly sure what that is in reference to. Appealing or enclosing the address...

Coupon-mad

Tootalltom wrote: »

I am writing the letter as I type. It occurred to me that the template in the sticky does not contain reference to my (the keeper) address. I presume this is correct as challenging as the registered keeper not as the driver and they can find my address via DVLA. Plus this takes extra work and time etc? All helping to spin things out a little more. Letter needs to be posted tomorrow as today is 21 days! Whoops!

Thanks in advance.

Not 'whoops' = it's too late to appeal now. Don't bother then - you are too late now if PCM's ticket only offered 21 days to challenge it.

And don't bother anyway because IAS is rubbish in our opinion, so it wouldn't have mattered even if you'd sent this first appeal in time we probably would have told you not to continue the appeal to IAS and to start ignoring the scam unless court papers arrive. You could now just send a Notice of Cancellation as per Harni2013's thread and aass11's thread. Read them to understand what we mean.

Just go into 'ignoring the debt collectors' mode as per post #4 of the NEWBIES thread. Saying 'you are too late' is NOT telling you to pay so don't misconstrue it!

Tootalltom

The PCN allows 28 days to appeal in the t+cs on the back. So I am within my appeal time limits. So no, it's not whoops bad, just getting close to the deadline. So in answer to my address question what should I include please?!