Dual rate electricity query

ribenagirl

Someone told me today at work that if you have dual rate electricity (cheap rate at night), although the night rate is cheaper, the day rate is actually MORE EXPENSIVE than the 'standard' single rate - is this actually true?

The reason I ask is because we don't really use much electricity at night, and we can't put our appliances (dishwasher, washing machine) on a timer switch to come on at night, and I'm wondering whether we could therefore save any money by switching to the standard single rate, if Powergen will let us.

(They keep mixing up the night and day readings when they read the meter, which has totally screwed up our bills over the last 3 years, so much so that we'll get a bill one month saying they owe us, then a bill the next month saying we owe them, so I haven't a clue what's going on any more and I think it'd be easier if we just had the one rate).

Thank you!

MATH

Day rate is more expensive on econ7 than standard. If you are paying the higher day rate you really need to max out the night rate benefit to make it work. Why can't you put your washer/dryer/dishwasher on at night. Doing this would certainly go some way to making econ 7 worthwhile. The break even point is about 30% of overall usage done on the night tarrif. To work out if you are better off on standard rate

Take meter readings and a week later take them again. Multily day and night usage by the approriate tarriff and add VAT. This is you econ 7 charges. Then add day and night units together and multiply this by the standard single rate charged by your supplier add vat. This is what it would cost you if you had single tarrif see if this is less or more than you current duel rate charges. You can change back to standard but I believe there is a fee for this.

ribenagirl

thanks for the help MATH

We can't use a timer plug thingy unfortunately because they're plugged in where we can't get to them (behind the appliance, underneath the worktop), and therefore the power is accessible only by a switch with a red light on, on the wall. If anyone has any good ideas though on how we could get a timer working they would be gratefully received

I'll ask the hubby to go take some meter readings

Cardew

Depending on your supplier you need between 25-30% of your consumption to be at night(economy 7 rates) to break even.

Unless you have storage heaters for your central heating system it is difficult to get any significant savings on Economy 7 and it can really be a bind having to operate washing machine/dishwasher at night. You tend to put on dishwasher when it is not really full, but won't have enough room for the next day's dishes.

If you have Gas CH it is cheaper to use this than an immersion heater on Economy 7.

MarkyMarkD

ribenagirl wrote:

thanks for the help MATH

We can't use a timer plug thingy unfortunately because they're plugged in where we can't get to them (behind the appliance, underneath the worktop), and therefore the power is accessible only by a switch with a red light on, on the wall. If anyone has any good ideas though on how we could get a timer working they would be gratefully received

I'll ask the hubby to go take some meter readings

If the socket behind the appliance is a normal socket, but with a remote switch above the work surface, there's no reason why you can't put a timer into the equation. Admittedly, it will be a pain though as there are times when you need to over-ride the timer (and run the machine during the day). Our timers are all exposed so this problem doesn't arise - although we achieve this by running the cables a long way rather than plugging the appliances into the sockets actually behind the machines.

MATH

Normally it is cheaper to heat water by gas than electric assuming you have an efficient gas boiler. if your boiler is old and expensive to run (like ours) then night rate immersion is cheaper. The only way to tell is to test it and do the math yourself.

Running your major appliances overnight is not a bind in my experience. You just need to set up a new routine and stick to it.

Cardew

MATH wrote:

Normally it is cheaper to heat water by gas than electric assuming you have an efficient gas boiler. if your boiler is old and expensive to run (like ours) then night rate immersion is cheaper. The only way to tell is to test it and do the math yourself.

Running your major appliances overnight is not a bind in my experience. You just need to set up a new routine and stick to it.

The normal efficiency for gas boilers is no lower than 80% - even old ones. (up to 93% for modern boilers) Taking the average price of gas at 1.6 -1.7p/KwH and night rate electricity at 2.7 - 3.0p/KwH it would have to be a pretty inefficient boiler to cost more to run.

Not suggesting you are wrong about your boiler; but that is surely atypical.

MarkyMarkD

Night-time electricity isn't necessarily as expensive as you state, Cardew. We are paying SWALEC 2.415p/kWh.

But you have a point - it's still dearer than our gas which is in your 1.6 - 1.7p/kWh range.

We have just bought a new washing machine and didn't realise until I plumbed it in this morning that it's cold fill only - the old machine was hot/cold fill. So presumably it's going to be marginally more expensive to run, like for like, because it only uses cold water.

Cardew

MarkyMarkD wrote:

Night-time electricity isn't necessarily as expensive as you state, Cardew. We are paying SWALEC 2.415p/kWh.

But you have a point - it's still dearer than our gas which is in your 1.6 - 1.7p/kWh range.

We have just bought a new washing machine and didn't realise until I plumbed it in this morning that it's cold fill only - the old machine was hot/cold fill. So presumably it's going to be marginally more expensive to run, like for like, because it only uses cold water.

It seems that cold fill machines are the fashion these days. My pal in the business tells me that Bosch and Meile do not produce Hot and Cold fill anymore.

He also tells me with H & C fill macines that it is only on the very hot(90c or so) washes that hot water alone is fed into the machine - and with modern fabrics these are rarely used anyway.

On the lower temperature washes both hot and cold are fed in on the wash cycle. In most houses the cold water pressure is far higher than the hot - so very little hot water is used. The heater then heats to 40-60c as required.

Modern machines use far less water(and hence power) than 'yesteryear.' According to the instruction manual, my machine uses between 0.4kWh and 0.6kWh for a full cycle for a typical wash; and only 1.1kWh for a full 5Kg wash at 60c.

MarkyMarkD

Thanks, Cardew. Our machine says on the EU standard efficiency sticker that it uses 1.14 kWh (for some sort of standard wash I suppose) which is only around 2.6p overnight including the heating of the water. Not bad, really! Our old machine only used "hot fill" on 60C washes which we don't often do, so I understand the reason why cold fill is getting more common - saves on plumbing if you are having it installed from scratch too.