Leasehold flat - £2k a year for H&S fees???

Fairer_Trades

This is my first post so please, be gentle!

I own one of four leasehold flats above a bank which takes up the entire ground floor. The bank do not have any access to our "common areas" and, likewise, we do not access any of theirs. The flats' common areas consists of 2 flights of stairs and a 5m uncarpeted corridor.

The yearly service charge for the whole property excluding insurance comes in at around £10,000; 50% to the bank, 50% split between the four flats which i think is extortionate in itself but one of my main issues is that over £2000 of that is in "risk assessments"-

Health and safety audits - £180
Health and Safety fee - £656
Fire risk assessment - £787
Asbestos monitoring - £300
DDA (disability access??) - £98 (down from £600 after i complained!)

I understand that these assessments have to be carried out for any common areas by law, but given the size of these areas, they seem very expensive!!

So, my questions are:

Do you think these charges higher than normal?

If so, would this be due to the bank?

Do you think the bank has common areas that would be included in these costs (since they lease the entire floor) or are they responsible for their own assessments?

If our common areas, and therefore the "risks", are exactly the same each year, can they charge to do a new assessment each year?

As i said, this is just one of my issues with my Managing Agents charges but this seems one of the most unfair!

I researched online as much as i can (stand! :mad:) but have hit a wall, so any insider info, advice, shoulders to cry on would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!

Pete9501

Fairer_Trades wrote: »

I understand that these assessments have to be carried out for any common areas by law, but given the size of these areas, they seem very expensive!!

Who are the service charges paid to? ask them to point out the law which says they have to be carried out annually for residential properties assuming you have to pay them each year.

Then get the other owners together and go for a right to manage (RTM), invite the bank too if you can show the charges would drop.

We certainly don't pay this level of charges for our estate a mix of houses and flats with common areas. Think we put £750 aside for a H&S check this year split between 186 properties, the first check in 3 years.

Fairer_Trades

The service charges go into a bank account specific to our property which I assume the Managing Agent has access so they can pay invoices etc.

As my property is classed as a "mixed use development", i think these assessments have to be done as the common areas are classed as "places of work" or something (but i could be wrong; i'm a bit Goggled out by the whole thing!!)

I have considered going for a RTM but the commercial element scares me; i'm not confident i'd be capable of managing it or maybe that's what they'd like me to think! It's hard to see where the £10,000 a year goes as the common areas haven't been cleaned, decorated or maintained in 10 years!

I wonder if all leaseholders in "mixed use" developments have to pay this much?

Pete9501

We have a managing agent, which directors of a limited company appoint. Each owner owns a share of Ltd company. Directors state policy and MA carries it out. This means we have control and are able to challenge costs and do! Sounds like you need something similar.

You might want to start questioning the MA why they need to do an asbestos check every year, who actually does it, who shops around for the best VFM etc. I think someone is doing very nicely off you.

Make them do the work and demonstrate to you and the other owners the need.

Willowpop

Pete9501 wrote: »

Who are the service charges paid to? ask them to point out the law which says they have to be carried out annually for residential properties assuming you have to pay them each year.

Then get the other owners together and go for a right to manage (RTM), invite the bank too if you can show the charges would drop.

We certainly don't pay this level of charges for our estate a mix of houses and flats with common areas. Think we put £750 aside for a H&S check this year split between 186 properties, the first check in 3 years.

Sorry to hijack, but quick question.. where do you get the h &s checks done? Is there a company who do them, or the local council? Thanks

rdr

if those are annual fees someone is having a laugh, a similar case was refered to the HSE's myth busters challenge panel http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2013/case-156-residents.htm
no way is this level of charge justified.

Fairer_Trades

Willowpop wrote: »

Sorry to hijack, but quick question.. where do you get the h &s checks done? Is there a company who do them, or the local council? Thanks

No problem Willowpop! I knew the asbestos monitoring (or "yes, the asbestos sheets i found 3 years ago are still there. £300 please") is carried out by an external company and i expected the others to be too but when i requested, by law, to view the accounts, i was sent a few sketchy invoices showing that the managing agent was charging to, supposedly, carry them out each year not that i'd ever seen them!

I think because they are predominantly a commercial managing agent they aren't used to dealing with residents who actually look at the bills they are sent! They are a total nightmare to get any info off and most of the time i have to tell them what the law says; it's sooooo tiring!

Also, as the freehold gets sold about every 3 years, as soon as i've sorted out these issues with one MA, a new one gets appointed and the whole thing starts again!

Fairer_Trades

rdr wrote: »

if those are annual fees someone is having a laugh, a similar case was refered to the HSE's myth busters challenge panel
no way is this level of charge justified.

Thank you!!! This is exactly what i have been Googling my fingers to the bone trying to find!

I just hope this applies to "mixed use" developments too!

Anyone got any experience with mixed use, or should i start a new thread?

Pete9501

Willowpop wrote: »

Sorry to hijack, but quick question.. where do you get the h &s checks done? Is there a company who do them, or the local council? Thanks

Think we just got a company to come in and do it across the estate (£750 for 186 properties rings a bell). Things like road signs (private roads) pavement condition and anything we should be doing to reduce the risk of a claim against the estate. We have previously had a claim by a Director for triping on a paving slab outside his house that he knew about but didn't do anything about it. The £6000 paid for his holiday. You would hope the MA would then be able to show the insurance underwriter the work that is done and lower the premiums but that was a wish to far.

The H&S inspection we do about every 3 years which seems sensible.

Pete

Fairer_Trades

Pete9501 wrote: »

Think we just got a company to come in and do it across the estate (£750 for 186 properties rings a bell). Things like road signs (private roads) pavement condition and anything we should be doing to reduce the risk of a claim against the estate. We have previously had a claim by a Director for triping on a paving slab outside his house that he knew about but didn't do anything about it. The £6000 paid for his holiday. You would hope the MA would then be able to show the insurance underwriter the work that is done and lower the premiums but that was a wish to far.

The H&S inspection we do about every 3 years which seems sensible.

Pete

What a git! (am i allowed to say git??) Funnily enough, but not really, there's actually a clause in my lease that exonorates the Freeholder/landlord from being liable for any injuries caused on these stairs! New H&S laws might override that but i'm not about to throw myself down the stairs to find out!

So basically, for your flat, you pay about £1.34 a year for your H&S reports and i pay £208! :eek:

I was, kind of, hoping i was going find out that those figures were more or less normal and i'd just have to lump it, but that really takes the Michael, and worse, it awakens the Consumer Champion in me which means i'm going to have to do something about it!

I took the previous MA to an LVT over buildings insurance (£7000 a year!) and won, but even though it was obvious they were overcharging (my quotes started at £1200 a year!) it still took about 3 months of my spare time to research and argue my case - i don't know if i can go through it again! :mad:

The whole thing is just so exhausting!!

Fairer_Trades

Pete9501 wrote: »

Then get the other owners together and go for a right to manage (RTM), invite the bank too if you can show the charges would drop.

Just found out that the property does not qualify for RTM

"Any commercial part of the block must not exceed 25% of the total floor area"

The bank below occupy 49% of the floor area :sad:

Looks like i'm stuck with MA's that i have no sway or influence over and, for the most part, get totally ignored by!

How can this be legal???