Reduce hours worked to avoid IPA?

woodformoretrees

dojoman wrote: »

How can every case be treated the same? Every case is unique to that individual and has to be treated that way, I knew what I was entering in to when going BR and was more than happy to pay in to an IPA.

Exactly - I, on the other hand, didn't declare bankruptcy myself. I was made bankrupt and will lose my house - So the idea of an IPA on top of that was one that completely did my head in. Everyone has to make the decision for themselves.

alastairq

I get the impression it isn't the IPA itself which is the real issue....but the fact that one reports to the OR any changes in financial circumstance for an awful lot longer?


What needs to be remembered is, the IPA system is completely flexible.

Unlike the payment systems of IVAs, DMPs, etc.

The IPA is an agreement.

The amounts are subject to negotiation.

Surely an increase in hours worked means an increase in domestic expenditure?

[It does for me, anyway]

In the end, it's a trade-off between a possibly slight financial benefit [I imply not all the new surplus goes to the BR estate], and the opportunity to have a reduced income for 12 months, with the upside being, with no IPA sought, one is free to enhance one's income thereafter?

As we all are once Discharged....?

ihavealotofquestions

alastairq wrote: »

I get the impression it isn't the IPA itself which is the real issue....but the fact that one reports to the OR any changes in financial circumstance for an awful lot longer?


What needs to be remembered is, the IPA system is completely flexible.

Unlike the payment systems of IVAs, DMPs, etc.

The IPA is an agreement.

The amounts are subject to negotiation.

Surely an increase in hours worked means an increase in domestic expenditure?

[It does for me, anyway]

In the end, it's a trade-off between a possibly slight financial benefit [I imply not all the new surplus goes to the BR estate], and the opportunity to have a reduced income for 12 months, with the upside being, with no IPA sought, one is free to enhance one's income thereafter?

As we all are once Discharged....?

OP here. Excuse me if I've understood wrongly but with an IPA all of my surplus would be paid to an IPA for 3 years unless I earn less than my reasonable living allowance (or have no more than £20 surplus).

If this is the case, and I have the opportunity, I can't see any problem with me reducing my hours enough to not have a surplus as even if I kept full time hours I am going to be no better off, but would have to live like that for 3 years instead of 1 if I just reduce my hours?

Seems I can't lose really. I just don't want the OR to look at what I've done (he will see from bank statements I have gone from full time to part time) and apply to the court to extend the bankrupcy past 12 months? Is he/she likely to do this? I could see one taking the attitude of "he's playing the system" or "he has the opportunity to pay something back but intentionally didn't to benefit himself" etc

alastairq

OP here. Excuse me if I've understood wrongly but with an IPA all of my surplus would be paid to an IPA for 3 years unless I earn less than my reasonable living allowance (or have no more than £20 surplus).

That is correct...[note I pointed out how the SOA itself may rise, if longer hours are worked?]

Seems I can't lose really. I just don't want the OR to look at what I've done (he will see from bank statements I have gone from full time to part time) and apply to the court to extend the bankruptcy past 12 months? Is he/she likely to do this? I could see one taking the attitude of "he's playing the system" or "he has the opportunity to pay something back but intentionally didn't to benefit himself" etc

No, that is not how it works.

The OR does not professionally sit in judgement. [despite what they may think, privately?]

Bankruptcy is not a criminal condition...it is exactly like Divorce...where a Court is petitioned to 'undo' a legal position.

The main reason why an OR can apply for a suspension of Discharge occurs when a BAnkrupt [usually] has bee uncooperative with the OR.

So, the OR will not pass judgement on you.

ANd don't concern yourself with 'playing the system'.

Everybody does it, to one degree or another....and even the OR's office help one to join in with the game.

[We have seen on here where, on the interview, the OR's representative has actually increased amounts show on an SOA...thereby reducing the chance of any surplus being recognised]

Even Civil Servants can play the game....by recording all overtime worked, but not submitting the claims. They have in excess of two years to submit claims [and beyond, but that requires an intervention].....because it is all done online these days...and the record of overtime can only be [legally] accessed by the claimant themselves.....until it is submitted, that is. I'm not suggesting that is what has occurred with regards to Bankruptcy, but the procedure is there to use.

BY all means, use the system....

tigerfeet2006

OK, instead of stressing about this why don't you pop up your SoA and we'll look and see how likely it is you will get an IPA on your wage as it stands now.

http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/soa.php

SomebodyToldMe

ihavealotofquestions wrote: »

Considering BR at the moment and regardless of the moral high ground of paying an IPA, I can't fathom the thought of pay an IPA of my surplus income for THREE YEARS. I will be 31 at the end of it and don't want to live off tinned food for 3 years so..

As I understand it, the OR can only appy an IPA whilst undischarged. So, when I'm discharged after a year, he can't apply one?

Would there be any problem with me reducing my hours with work so much that it is just enough to live off with no surplus so that an IPA wont be imposed a then when the year is up, increase my hours again?

IMHO what you are proposing to do is absolutely correct
Sit tight and complete your 'sentence' for a year, and then start again- rather having 3 years on your head with an IPA, which can off course increase with you end up getting a highly paid job
Don't pay the bar stewards any more!
Good luck!

tigerfeet2006

But we don't know i he will be due and IPA as we haven't had sight of the SoA as yet. When it's up then ot can be looked at as an OR may look at it.

nervousandready

I am 95 days off being discharged! Hurrah! BUT I have an IPA which will run for another 2.5 years. It's really difficult to think of that amount of time (and I will be 50 soon) to still be 'under their eyes'. I can't change it but I do think it unfair that some people can go for the 12 months and then be free and get a great job, and I will still be paying any 'surplus' to them. Oh well, it is what it is.

alastairq

...................and, are you not already luckier, in that your present income is sufficient to generate a surplus?

When many will work all the hours they can physically muster, and still not earn an income sufficient to generate that much-vaunted surplus?

This is obviously the price one pays for making use of the power of the Courts, and the Law, eh?

elljay

This is a really interesting question. It's the 3 year IPA stretch that's the problem I feel. In my case an IPA feels like the right thing to do almost as a penance for allowing myself to enter into an ill-thought out business venture and ending up being the bankrupt one. I also wanted to pay something back as not all creditors were faceless banks, some just small businesses like myself although I know they get very little.

On the other hand, in order to pay the growing debts while the business was still running, I took out all 3 work pensions early (thus losing out), I also took on as much paid work as I possibly could, extra hours at the 'day job', a few hours a month here in one job, a few hours a month in another, I now have about 6 jobs, mostly small community organisations or single-person businesses where they needed someone to do a few hours a month admin, or cleaning for example. Added altogether I am earning the equivalent of a full time job. I also took out my state pension as soon as I could, rather than deferring it as so many of my friends have done while working.

As a consequence I now have a sizeable IPA and while I know if I leave any of these jobs I can ask for it to be reassessed, I will still have one for 3 years. I also now don't feel I can leave any of these jobs as the community and employers have come to rely on me and I wouldn't like to let them down, it's hard to find someone to work 4 hours a month! If I hadn't tried so hard to pay my debts before becoming bankrupt, I would now have loads of free time to enjoy retirement, volunteer, learn new things, perhaps a little part time job in community work, and no IPA for 3 years.

It's almost a moral question really isn't it, and while it depends on so many factors, I really couldn't blame you despite a slight feeling of sour grapes that I'm working my socks off and you're enjoying the quiet life I'd like to have.

Good luck whatever you decide to do - please keep us posted, you've started an interesting discussion and much food for thought.