using veg oil instead of diesel

rcflyers

Hi all, I emailed HMRC with the following:

"Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you for clarification on a recent change in the law regarding duty payable on using vegetable oils as road fuel which came into effect on 30th June 2007.
I want to use ordinary SVO (new and unused rapeseed vegetable oil, i.e. Tesco cooking oil) as a road fuel in my diesel car.
Can I use less than 2500 litres per annum and not pay any additional duty?
(i.e. is this type of vegetable oil exempt from any duty as long as the 2500 litre per annum limit is not exceeded?)
I tried ringing your 0845 advice line but a definite and clear answer was not available to me.
Do I need to register in any way to use the above fuel substitute?
Please clarify the law as far as the above is concerned."


Today I received the following reply:


"Date 20 July 2007

Reference xxxxx

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxx

Vegetable Oil/DERV mixture

Thank you for your e-mail dated 15 July 2007 regarding the use of vegetable oil and DERV mixture in your car and whether you have to register with H M Revenue and Customs [HMRC].

The changes brought in under the ‘Biofuels Simplification’ [Revenue and Customs Brief 43/07] whereby producers of biofuels (or other fuel substitutes) who produce (or use) less than 2,500 litres per annum, will no longer be required to make entry, render returns or pay duty, are intended to cover both those who produce or use biofuels (such as biodiesel, or bioethanol), and those who produce or use other ‘fuel substitutes’ (such as vegetable oil).

Anyone producing (or using) more than 2,500 litres per annum will have to make entry of their premises (register), render returns and pay duty.

Where producers or users will exceed 2,500 litres per annum, then they need to make entry of their premises, render returns and pay duty in accordance with Public Notice 179e (which is currently being amended to reflect the recent changes).

For those producers who are ‘registered’ there will remain a continuing requirement for them to show that the fuel that they produce (or use) is Biodiesel (and meets the fiscal definition in HODA) and where this is not the case, they will continue to be liable to the higher rate of duty on the biofuel they produce (or use) at the higher Fuel Substitute rate.

Revenue and Customs Brief 43/07
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4307.htm

Public Notice 179E
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSh eets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000205

I hope the above information is satisfactory, but if you have any further queries regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact the address shown above quoting our reference number.

Yours sincerely



Mr D J Emmerson
Written Enquiries Officer"


Now, my belief is that if I use below 2500 litres per annum I can use any "fuel substitute"(obviously not Red Diesel or paraffin, etc), only if I use over the 2500 litres per annum do I have to register AND show that the fuel meets the fiscal? specification.

Any comments?

oldagetraveller

That's how I read it but make absolutely 100% sure that your car's engine will be suitable for this exercise. If not then you could render considerable damage to the high pressure fuel system, particularly the pump. I know Vauxhall for one warn against the use of bio fuels, for their modern common rail Diesels. It's in the vehicles' handbooks' fuel recommendation section.

bartman

As regards the compatibility issue, as far as I have been able to ascertain the rule of thumb is that if you have an old type diesel (ie not direct injection) and have a Bosch fuel pump, you should be OK. If you Google there are a few sites which will list the engines which have been found to be OK with Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO). Fortunately for me this includes the older VW engines and therefore my Seat Ibiza! I have no problems at all with a 50% mix with ordinary diesel.

As far as the issue of "fiscal definition" is concerned, HMRC are obviously being deliberately vague about this. You might like to have a look at this thread -

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2795&page=2

you will also see from one of the postings that one of the contributors had an identical letter from HMRC, so they've obviously got a standard response to fob enquirers off with.

BTW, my local Tesco has 15 litre steel drums at £8.20 each - 54.6p per litre! Not sure if that's available evrywhere though.

EDIT - D'OH! rcflyers, now that I've re-read the linked forum properly, I see that you have already posted there! I should have noticed that! One other thing, if you go ahead with the fuel switch, you'll also have to change your user name to rcfryers.

tali

you have to be careful in colder temps as my 405 reguarly stalled on SVO

bartman

tali wrote: »

you have to be careful in colder temps as my 405 reguarly stalled on SVO

Yes, I wasn't planning to use the same mix through the winter, unless I invest in one of the pre-heating methods. I'll probably drop to a 20% mix and see how it goes.

tali

bartman wrote: »

Yes, I wasn't planning to use the same mix through the winter, unless I invest in one of the pre-heating methods. I'll probably drop to a 20% mix and see how it goes.

i was only using 25%, was fine for few months but in autumn probs started (even on hot sunny afternoon) , best solution is a tiresome 2 minute sit in to let it stall on idle(not good when trying to rush kids to school!)

TDIfurby

If you run a German origin modern diesel then be VERY careful about using SVO in your car. If you have the engine code ATD, ASZ or ARL in your TDI car (Skoda, Audi, VW, Seat) then running SVO could be potentially catastrophic, resulting in the need to spend £'000s on new injectors and fuelling parts. The PD (pump duse) injection system on these engines is rated to THOUSANDS of PSI pressure, and diesel is fine at these pressures. SVO is not so....

If you want to run SVO, one of the best engines is the older TD engines found in Peugeot 405 / Citreon ZX, and to a point, the slightly newer Pug 306s as well. Do some SERIOUS reserch on your car's ability to burn SVO before even letting a drop pass your filler cap.

Personally, I'm sticking to diesel. When you're running a PD engine, highly tuned at 100% above stock engine power, you need to be sure of reliable, good fuelling. So I'm sticking to the pumps, even at £1 a litre now.