New! Post of the Month is back - Nominate October's best discussion

MSE_Helen_S

Hi grumbler

Thanks for your post. I've looked at both your points - the Chargeback guide does mention in the intro that it's for credit cards as well as debit cards, but I see your point about the subtitle, and have amended that slightly.

As to your S75 point, I'm afraid I disagree. Section 75 is part of the Consumer Credit Act so only applies to credit cards (and other credit agreements).

Some debit card providers offer a similar protection, but that's their choice, it's not required under law, which is why the guide only talks about CC providers who *have* to offer s75 protection.

Please do let me know if you have a source that contradicts this..? Thanks

grumbler

MSE_Helen_Saxon wrote: »

As to your S75 point, I'm afraid I disagree. Section 75 is part of the Consumer Credit Act so only applies to credit cards (and other credit agreements).

I have to disagree either. Did you read the thread?
CCA is about credit, not about credit cards.
An arranged overdraft is a credit agreement.
A debit card with an agreed overdraft limit is no different from a credit card if the overdraft is used to pay for the goods/services. Similarly, S75 doesn't cover CC purchases if the CC was in credit and remained in credit after the transaction.

Thank you for correcting the title of the 'chargeback' article.

ETA: In light of the new facts posted in the other thread I agree that it's far less clear than I thought and it's definitely premature to alter the MSE article.

MSE_Helen_S

I think maybe s187 (3a) of the Act applies here - that it is an "arrangement for the electronic transfer of funds from a current account at a bank" and is therefore not establishing a creditor/supplier relationship, meaning s75 wouldn't apply on that grounds.

But, you raised an interesting point, so I will look into this further, see if we can't get something definitive...

jamesd

MSE Helen Saxon, it does indeed seem unclear.

The Financial Ombudsman Service, "using plastic cards as credit-tokens" in Ombudsman News issue 46 wrote:

'The meaning of "credit-token" is set out in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The definition is broad and open-ended, but it includes the use of a credit card or a debit card on an account which is overdrawn (up to the extent of its agreed limit) or which is taken overdrawn (up to the extent of its agreed credit limit) by the disputed transaction.'

A similar statement is made in issue 3.

So you do not get the CCA protection with the credit balance but as soon as an overdraft is involved you do and this is very important in cases of fraud where, "because the act says that liability for unauthorised use of a credit-token is limited to £50, a firm cannot use the cardholder’s negligence in caring for the card and security information as its grounds for seeking to make the cardholder liable for more than £50."

Elsewhere the FOS says that section 75 only applies where there is a pre-existing relationship between the merchant and the credit provider and is also explicit that debit cards are not covered:

"Section 75 only covers transactions made using consumer credit. So only transactions made with credit cards (including most store cards) are covered. Transactions made using other types of plastic cards - like charge cards or debit cards - are not covered by section 75."

However, a purchase made by a debit card using an overdraft is a transaction using consumer credit so it does seem possible to me that section 75 would apply and the FOS does not appear to have addressed that case explicitly in the publications I found. Rather, they seem in the last quote to have assumed that credit would not be involved in the debit card transaction.

It does seem worthwhile to consider a section 75 claim if an overdraft was used when the purchase was made. Even if that overdraft was created by the transaction and cleared before any overdraft charges would be incurred. It would indeed be good to have this clarified and it would create quite an interesting way to use current accounts. But a call to the FOS first would be sensible.

JimmyTheWig

Can I nominate balletshoes for their huge efforts in the DisneylandParis thread?
This post is an example
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66847029&postcount=11772
but throughout they have, pretty much singlehandedly, helped many people.

torbrex

On the freebies board there are always good offers spotted by folk and posted but this thread appeared yesterday and it outshines all that I have seen recently simply because it will be of use to more people, I think it deserves to be nominated for post of the month.

zennith

A great offer on cat food from Tesco, posted on the Food Shopping, Groceries board:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5097488

torbrex

When is the vote?

Former_MSE_Megan

We'd like a few more nominations before we start voting so, soon

torbrex

Its already suffering from a severe lack of interest, dragging it on isn't going to revive it