New here, need advice re. handling phonecalls

cinnabar

Hi, have been lurking for a few weeks, delurking now because I feel rather shaken up but the phone call I just had and you seem like a reassuring bunch :-) . Have just answered the phone to a credit card company who I am in arrears with (knew it was one of them but not which one till I answered!) who phoned me at approx. 8.45pm. Just wondered what people thought about how I handled the call - I've been ignoring them so far (not ignoring the debts though as I am in the process of being advised by CAB and PayPlan) but decided to take the bull by the horns so to speak.
They asked to speak to me by name. I didn't say, "yes this is **** speaking", I asked them who they were and they gave the name of the credit card company.

They asked me to confirm my date of birth and I replied I wasn't willing to discuss that kind of detail over the phone when it was them who had phoned me. Got into a stalemate with the guy - he then gave my day and month of birth and asked to me to confirm the year - again i fairly politely refused and said I was not willing to discuss personal data such as this on the telephone but was perfectly happy to be contacted by letter, which he said they couldn't do.
Then he quoted my full previous address at me (I could have sworn I'd changed it with them) and I said it was the incorrect address and that I didn't wish to continue the call.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure it was a legitimate call. My question is, CAB kind of gave me the impression that 8.45pm was a bit late for creditors to be calling - what do other people think? And does it sound like I've said anything really daft - all I wanted to say was that I wasn't willing to give out personal data to a caller and that I would rather be contacted by letter but it quickly got into an argument, and now I feel shaky and wish that I'd just left it all alone - needless to say I don't want to answer the phone again! And do you think I should write to them advising them of my change of address? - like I say I thought I had but although I owe them money (and am considering bankruptcy in the near future) I don't want to make it seem like I'm hiding from them.

Any advice would be helpful, I'm new to all this!

Cinnabar

diddlydum

8.45's a bit late to be calling, but I don't think you'd have much joy claiming that it was harrassment, as it's not that unreasonable. After 9pm you'd have more of a case, but it really depends how often they do it. They do have the right to ring you up to get you to pay them.

Normally I'd advise that you should be as obstructive as possible to them if they start demanding you confirm your personal details over the phone. Use their own guidelines right back at them, and get them to write to you. They're normally loathe to do that because it's hard to shout at someone in a letter.

I think you handled the call pretty well, but when you do speak to them make sure you let them know which agency is dealing with the debt. IME they'll try and pretend that either they've never heard of the agency, or that the agency hasn't got in contact (when they have), but leave it at that. Your agency is doing the negotiation precisely so you don't have to deal with it.

cinnabar

Thanks for the quick reply! I think what I might do is send them a holding letter changing my address, that I want to be contacted only by mail and saying I'm having difficulty paying and that I'm receiving advice from CAB - they won't yet know I'm dealing with CAB/Payplan as I've only recently spoken to them. To make things worse I work for a bank connected with this credit card company and I've spoken to more than a few customers who said they weren't happy with having to give personal details over the phone for ID - now I know how they feel!

PixiePie

You handled it better than I - which was to not really confirm but not really deny my DoB etc so they launch into the assault and it ends up with me in floods of tears and hanging up on them.

If the phone calls are too hassly, you can write to them (make sure you do it registered post) and tell them to stop calling you as you only wish to correspond by mail. You don't have to give a reason, but you can if you want (ie you want a full written record of everything, you find it hard to understand whilst talking on the phone etc etc...). I've so far found two slightly different versions of the letter on here:

Dear Sirs,

RE: Your Client – Grabbit and Runn Credit Card

I refer to my correspondence of (date) regarding the debt that I owe to your above named client. A copy of this correspondence is enclosed herewith, for ease of reference.

Since making my financial position clear to you, I have been constantly harassed by your operatives, who have attempted to intimidate me into making payments that I simply cannot afford to make, under my present circumstances.

I wish you to know, that I am aware of my rights and that your constant telephone calls are a breach of Section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970 and any further incidents of this nature constitute a course of conduct, which is a criminal offence under Section 2 of The Prevention from Harassment Act 1997.

Please note, that whilst I take my obligation to you seriously, I will not tolerate such abuse and if I receive any further telephone calls from your organisation, I will have no hesitation in reporting the matter to The Office of Fair Trading, whom you may be interested to know, are currently encouraging reports of this nature.

I would be obliged if you would kindly acknowledge receipt of this letter and confirm that there will be no further attempts to contact me by telephone. I am entirely happy to communicate with you in writing and would be obliged if you would give my proposals, serious consideration.

Yours faithfully

Etc

OR

By Recorded Delivery

Dear Sir,


Your Ref:

Despite my verbal requests that I require ALL communications from your company to be in writing, your telephone calls continue.

This behaviour constitutes harassment; I have stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future Court use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I trust that I have made myself understood on this matter,

Yours faithfully,

Mr/Ms etc XXX

If they call after this you can either warn them that you are recording the call and reporting them to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading (is that right guys - there is a better post about this in a thread on DCAs in general somewhere on this forum) as you have requested to not be contacted by phone. We aware when you do this they may call you a liar (miine did) and say they are allowed to call etc. They are not if you have requested written correspondence and report them immediately. Hopefully though it won't go this far, so don't let me worry you - I've just had bad luck I think with my lot

Thank you to the original people who put them up, I've copied them here to avoid searching but will take them off this post if you want.

That takes the immediate hassle of having them shout and swear at you away and leaves you a bit of breathing room to deal with things.

8.45pm isn't late imhe - the nasty !!!!!!s calling me call from 7am until 9pm

By writing to them you are not avoiding them or being difficult, you have the right to correspond by writing and not on the phone, so don't worry about not co-operating.

Hope that helps

Crown

Hi Pixie, Those Template letters are correct and should stop the phone calls from coming. With regards to how the OP handled the call I think you did excellently!

If you do not confirm you are the person they need to speak to and do not complete security then they cannot continue as it is againstthe Data Protection act. I think its a little dubious that he gave out your address over the phone and I would include that if and when you send the template letter to them.

If I receive any call from a DCA now I actually enjoy the processas I am well aware of my rights and if I have already sent them the letter above I find I can use it as a bargaining tool. They certainly dont like it when the tables are switched and it is you who is threating legal action. They rely on bullying tactics far to much for my liking!

Hope it all works out and let us know if you have any success/problems

Eager_Elephant

Hi cinnabar,

I think you handled the call very well. I don't receive debt calls but if I receive any calls at all from my bank I refuse to confirm details and tell them that I will ring them on a number from my statement - they say ok and hang up but debt collections are more strong willed and won't be fobbed off as easily.

If you are taking advice from CAB/Payplan how far have you got?
Have you completely stopped paying? If you are still discussing the plan of action for your debts you could send them all £1 each month which just indicates to them that you are not ignoring them and are willing to pay something.

I agree that the template letters are good but if they keep ringing the best thing to do is when they say 'Can I speak to Cinnabar?', you should say 'yeah I'll just get her' and then leave the phone as though you have gone to get someone, make a cup of tea, drink it and then go back to the phone - they definitely won't be holding on still!!

EE

cinnabar

Eager_Elephant - I like your idea about going and making a cup of tea! I might give it a go actually...one of thinks that bugged me about the call last night was that at no point did I actually confirm I was who they'd asked for. It was on my contract mobile but had I owned a pay as you go I could easily have just given the phone away complete with SIM - in fact that's what I did with my old one and MBNA kept phoning it for a while after being told it no longer belonged to me.

As far as payplan go, I haven't found them terribly helpful since the initial contact - I asked to delay any involvement for a couple of months because my employment situation is in flux and had everything gone smoothly I would have been earning considerably more than I am now and would probably have more options realistically. When I did get back in touch to ask about bankruptcy they just said to get in touch with CAB and sent me the same booklet as you get sent by the county court. But maybe they only really get involved with DMPs? CAB I've just had the initial interview with but have an appointment with the debt specialist in a few weeks - wish it was sooner really but sounds like they've had a sudden rise in thbe number of people seeking advice round here!

I have almost completely stopped paying now (I know you're not supposed to favour any creditors but I work for my largest creditor and they take a loan payment directly out of an account I hold with them - difficult to avoid that one going out!) , I was thinking I might contact them all again in the next week and offer a token payment but in the light of the probability of my going bankrupt in the next 6-8 weeks it doesn't seem worth it. I suppose if my situation changed drastically (like I actually manage to get a better paid job in the next 4 weeks) I might consider an IVA or DMP in which case the token payment thing might help my case, but tbh it's all very unlikely - it's partly that kind of thinking that has led me to the situation I'm in now - I kept thinking that I'd get it sorted next month etc etc. But then I suppose a token payment can't do any harm can it?

Kimie

Hi - wow I would never have thought to not confirm my details with a creditor when they call. I just get scared into submission!

My other half has been getting calls all week from the bank and ignoring them. They called today and I made him answer... he told them we are in talks with a debt management organisation and that they will be contacted shortly. They took this ok and have flagged it so that he won't get any more calls for a week. Did we do the right thing?

The last time I spoke to a collection agency the guy was so helpful when I called to set up a payment plan (took me a week to get the courage to do so) that I cried and sniffled on the phone to him! I had worked myself into such a state over the debt it was a relief to be getting it sorted.

Eager_Elephant

Hi cinnabar,

If you are going bankrupt do not make any token payments.

There is no point and that few pounds could be in your pocket instead of the creditors.

EE

Eager_Elephant

Hi kimie

It is always a good idea to keep your creditors in the picture because setting up a DMP or whatever can take over a month and creditors get panicky if they don't hear from you.

I don't think a week will be long enough and so you are likely to get more phone calls shortly so I suggest you try my tactic above.

EE

jo1972

Hi,

I thought you handled the call extremely well considering me and DH used to sit there saying 'who you reckon that is' whenever the phone rung or snuck up to the curtains trying to peak who was knocking on the door! We didn't answer that door for over 10 years and rarely the phone for that matter. When you look at it like that you have to understand how this is a form of harrassement. Yeah you want to pay the money back and yes your situation isn't fantastic but you are no longer in hiding, but they still don't seem to get it. I do feel sorry for the agents that have to ring or knock on the door cos afterall they may be just as skint as the rest of us but still need a job at the end of the day, but the worst time of my life was between 8am and 9pm whilst I was in debt in case they rung/knocked.

If you make them understand that you know the guidelines (which by refusing to talk to them you have) then they will lighten up. You need to put it in writing by using either one of the excellent templates you've already been given.

Have you tried ringing CCCS? You can have everything down in writing and on your screen in front of you so you can see where you are going and what you're doing. They have excellent customer service too. A couple of advisors post on this board.

http://www.cccs.co.uk/

Just wanted to say good luck, you are further ahead than I was on my first DCA phone call!!

Jo.x