Council Car park Ticket Appeal

morrisoscar

I have appealed a ticket I was issued on the grounds stated. The council involved have rejected my appeal as set out below and in the letter of rejection state that the missing sign is in place which I know to be incorrect and have photographic evidence taken on the day. I am waiting for the notice to keeper to make a formal appeal.

First does this appeal look OK which they have already rejected and secondly should I mention the photographs with my appeal upon notice to keeper or hold them back for the independent appeal if required.

The contravention did not occur due to :-
1) Unclear / misleading signage layout.
2) Missing Signage.


1) On the first full day of my holiday in your area I entered the xxxxxx xxx Car Park by the entrance on xxxxxx xxx and parked in a disabled bay displaying my blue badge. I read the sign on the pay machine and understood it to indicate I could park free of charge. The first line of wording states (blue badge logo} Disabled Badge Holders must pay to park unless displaying a valid (blue badge logo). I had understood this to mean I could park free of charge and had not noticed the second line of words which are not in line with the top line of text and states xxxxxx District Council Parking Permit. The layout of text on the pay machine is misleading as the word valid is followed by a blue badge logo.


2) Upon leaving the car park via the xxxxxx xxxxx entrance/exit I noticed a sign under the welcome sign at the entrance which states (faded blue Badge logo) CHARGES APPLY TO ALL SPACES. Such a sign is missing at the xxxxx xxx entrance which is the one I used to enter the car park. I have since noticed that other car parks in the area have this sign at the entrance.


Therefore I wish to appeal the parking charge notice on the above stated grounds.

Coupon-mad

Almost all first appeals get turned down by Councils because they know the gullible British public will mostly pay up when reoffered the discount. What people don't know is that most formal appeals leading to adjudications win in the end so the odds are in your favour and you certainly have grounds to continue to appeal.

I would not pay - and BTW it's not a NTK it's an NTO next. When you get the NTO, post a new topic for help to win your appeal with pepipoo posters' help, here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

DO NOT post on pepipoo without pics of the documents (PCN and NTO, all sides, all pages including the back) and a pic of the sign or they can't help you win.

morrisoscar

Thanks Coupon - mad, I will not be paying until I have lost at the independent appeal. As a retired local government officer with over 30 years working in a highways department I am embarrassed:o to admit that I was caught out by the wording layout on the p&d machine, which, I feel almost amounts to entrapment.:mad: and for a desk jockey to claim the sign is in place on site without going to check is indefensible.

Coupon-mad

I agree with your description of the wording and hope that an adjudicator will see the ambiguity as well.

morrisoscar

Now on pepipoo

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=94158&st=0

Coupon-mad

Makes interesting reading - and as there is no discount in play any more (I think?) you may as well go all the way to adjudication.

morrisoscar

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Makes interesting reading - and as there is no discount in play any more (I think?) you may as well go all the way to adjudication.

Discount period has gone, but as said previously if I can be caught out by the wording on the P&D machine after over 30 years in a highways dept. I'm sure others can be. If I have to pay I will pay but it won't change my opinion that the text layout on the P&D machine is almost entrapment worthy of the best private parking companies never mind local government. When I started my career we were there to serve/help the public not punish them and use for income generation.:mad:

morrisoscar

This is now at independent appeal stage.Along with their formal rejection letter to me the council sent me photographic evidence that the sign is in place, funny part is would you believe the sign is missing in their photograph as well.:rotfl: They also forgot to enclose details of the independent appeal, only stating they were enclosed which meant I had to ask for them. I refer to this in my appeal as they have committed a procedural impropriety.

Coupon-mad

Sounds like you are fairly likely to win, from what you have said. A missing sign and procedural impropriety should make it simple for the adjudicator. Best advice is to turn up in person for the decision - DO NOT rely on a postal decision because that way the adjudicator never sees you, hears from you/realises you are right. Postal decisions from the TPT can go either way as the Adjudicator may misread the evidence or overlook something simple but important. That doesn't happen when you sit there on the other side of the table (it's just a meeting) pointing stuff out politely and firmly and showing yourself to be an honest and reliable witness.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=94158&st=20

Let us know what happens in the end.

morrisoscar

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Sounds like you are fairly likely to win, from what you have said. A missing sign and procedural impropriety should make it simple for the adjudicator. Best advice is to turn up in person for the decision - DO NOT rely on a postal decision because that way the adjudicator never sees you, hears from you/realises you are right.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=94158&st=20

Let us know what happens in the end.

Thanks Coupon -mad, I have asked for a personal hearing because their incompetence/ arrogance in dealing with my appeal has put me to some inconvenience and annoyed me. If I lose I will pay the £50, if I win I will pay the £50 to a local charity, but, I'll be dammed if I'm going to pay £50 into the coffers of an incompetent council parking department without a fight.

Coupon-mad

Perfect attitude and approach to it - I think you'll win!