Can a conveyancing solicitor refuse to give advice about Right to Buy?

Mokka

We are forced to complete our purchase, as our mortgage offer is expiring. Our landlord has miscalculated our discount and refuses to pay out rent refund due under Housing Act 1985. We've asked our solicitor for help, as we knew we could have these matters sorted out under s.181 of the HA. However he refused to give advice on Housing Act matters. After unsuccessfully trying to obtain advice from barristers directly we've asked for, and were promised, help with this. The advice never materialised. We don't know where it leaves us with being able to claim money owed at a later date. It is a significant sum (equivalent of my yearly salary).:mad:

G_M

You cannot instruct a barrister. Only a solicitor can do so. It's like seeing a hospital consultant on the NHS - you need to be referred by a GP.

Is your solicitor refusing to give the advice because
a) it is outside his area of knowledge or
b) it is outside the scope of your instruction to him (conveyancing / rnet / RTB) and would involve additional charges or
c) of some other reason?

When you were finally 'promised help', who from? Solicitor? Referral to a colleague? someone else?

What happened when you chased?

Is your solicitor advising you to Exchange Contracts and if so is he doing so in full knowledge of the outstanding problem?

I'm not familiar with RTB, but don't understand what the discount (presumably on the purchase price / market value) has to do with a rent refund. Are these somehow connected?

If it is the purchase price that is wrong in your view, do not Exchange Contracts until it is resolved and you are satisfied.

Richard_Webster

When you first approached the seller (HA/LA?) long before you instructed a solicitor or applied for a mortgage, you would have received an offer setting out their view of the value of the property and your discount entitlement. It should have been obvious how it was worked out - so many years = x%. Why didn't you spot it at that stage?

Mokka

Richard_Webster wrote: »

When you first approached the seller (HA/LA?) long before you instructed a solicitor or applied for a mortgage, you would have received an offer setting out their view of the value of the property and your discount entitlement. It should have been obvious how it was worked out - so many years = x%. Why didn't you spot it at that stage?

The mistake was made because of wrong advice given by the landlord. Fortunately (or so we thought) there is a section in the HA that imposes a duty on the landlord to correct such mistakes. Unfortunately they refused.

Mokka

G_M wrote: »

You cannot instruct a barrister. Only a solicitor can do so. It's like seeing a hospital consultant on the NHS - you need to be referred by a GP.

You can these days, you need to find a direct access one. It's so much harder though, and I think more complicated. In the end we didn't get anywhere.

Is your solicitor refusing to give the advice because
a) it is outside his area of knowledge or

So he said, however when I engaged him I made him aware that my landlord is a nightmare and I was having problems. A few other conveyancing solicitors refused to take us on. I chose him over another one and I bitterly regret it.

b) it is outside the scope of your instruction to him (conveyancing / rnet / RTB) and would involve additional charges or

It is a RTB/Housing Act 1985 breach issue

c) of some other reason?
He does not seem to care? If there is another reason he hasn't communicated it

When you were finally 'promised help', who from? Solicitor? Referral to a colleague? someone else?

Solicitor promised advice from a barrister. It never materialised.

What happened when you chased?

Mostly nothing. THey are practically impossible to get hold of. Does not respond to emails or messages left on the phone. I started their internal complaints procedure but the firm's partner responsible for dealing with these also did not respond.


Is your solicitor advising you to Exchange Contracts and if so is he doing so in full knowledge of the outstanding problem?

He sent us the contracts to sign.
He has the full knowledge of the outstanding problem.

I'm not familiar with RTB, but don't understand what the discount (presumably on the purchase price / market value) has to do with a rent refund. Are these somehow connected?

No, they are 2 separate issues.

If it is the purchase price that is wrong in your view, do not Exchange Contracts until it is resolved and you are satisfied.

We are forced to do so, or we will lose our mortgage offer. It was a nearly impossible feat to get it (high rise concrete council block), it was secured pre MMR rules, the deal is now withdrawn and would be replaced - if our mortgage reappliaction was succesful- by a higher interest one. The losses would simply mount

silvercar

We are forced to complete our purchase, as our mortgage offer is expiring.

You can get mortgage offers extended, you can also apply again to the same or a different lender.

However he refused to give advice on Housing Act matters.

Beyond his expertise? See a different solicitor for this matter.

We don't know where it leaves us with being able to claim money owed at a later date.

You need to find this out! Is there an ombudsman? Obviously whether to complete with no rights to redress would be a decision you have to make.

If it is a question of losing a years worth of salary or losing the mortgage application fee, then you should wait until it is sorted. But if this:

The mistake was made because of wrong advice given by the landlord. Fortunately (or so we thought) there is a section in the HA that imposes a duty on the landlord to correct such mistakes. Unfortunately they refused.

is true, then they can't refuse.

Either you are contractually bound by the contract you agreed to or you have a right to have errors corrected. You need to find out which.

silvercar

We are forced to do so, or we will lose our mortgage offer. It was a nearly impossible feat to get it (high rise concrete council block), it was secured pre MMR rules, the deal is now withdrawn and would be replaced - if our mortgage reappliaction was succesful- by a higher interest one. The losses would simply mount

Of all you have posted this is the most concerning.

Have you thought about what happens when you come to sell? Will anyone be able to get a mortgage on the property?

However frustrated you are now, no-one is actually forcing you to buy. You could continue to rent. Many would advise that the risks of living in a council high rise flat, in terms of having costs of the upkeep and any improvements to the building thrust open you, together with the difficulty of selling onwards, would make the decision to buy a risky one.

Mokka

silvercar wrote: »

You can get mortgage offers extended, you can also apply again to the same or a different lender.

.

It was already extended- it is the extension that is expiring. The new offer would be at a higher interest, if granted.

Beyond his expertise? See a different solicitor for this matter.
Tried to find one for over a year. Approached over 50 firms, posted on forums- nada.

You need to find this out! Is there an ombudsman? Obviously whether to complete with no rights to redress would be a decision you have to make.

I am writing to the Ombudsman as we speak. I do not know whether I would have rights of redress or not, as I have not found a competent lawyer who can explain this. We are making a statement that we are signing the contract under duress.

If it is a question of losing a years worth of salary or losing the mortgage application fee, then you should wait until it is sorted.Either you are contractually bound by the contract you agreed to or you have a right to have errors corrected. You need to find out which.

It's not just the fees, but the higher interest, which would add up to much more.
I do have a right to have errors corrected but the landlord refuses, as they claim they can 'interpret' legislation by amending its wording. The whole story is so bad it is almost comical and I should really take it to the press. Who needs the Parliament if a Halfwit LA Officer can rewrite legislation for us?
The landlord knows the situation and knows we cannot afford to lose this mortgage offer so the only option left to us, which is to take them to court under s.181 of the Housing Act 1985 is not practically available to us. Especially as I would have to self-represent.

Mokka

silvercar wrote: »

Of all you have posted this is the most concerning.

Have you thought about what happens when you come to sell? Will anyone be able to get a mortgage on the property?

However frustrated you are now, no-one is actually forcing you to buy. You could continue to rent. Many would advise that the risks of living in a council high rise flat, in terms of having costs of the upkeep and any improvements to the building thrust open you, together with the difficulty of selling onwards, would make the decision to buy a risky one.

We thought about this long and hard and, even after calculating the repair charges, it makes sense for us to buy.
Not everyone buys property to sell, we intend to live in ours.
If we were to sell, there is a lot of people around who are so keen to buy they will pay cash. Believe me, my banks underwriters have looked into this in great detail. If the properties here did not sell like the proverbial hot buns we would have never been able to secure a mortgage.

What I do object to is that some tenant-hating jobsworth LA officer can make a decision to deprive us of money we are legally entitled to and try to force us into legal action.

TBagpuss

I think he problem is that you wan advice about a very niche area of law, and it sounds as though it is not one which your existing solicitor is able to advise upon. I'm not surprised - it doesn't sound as though it is a conveyancing issue.

Another problem is that housing issues are something which in the past were often dealt with under Legal Aid. As Legal Aid has almost entirely abolished for civil cases, there are fewer lawyers doing this kind of work.

Have you searched specifically for housing law rather than conveyancing? It's a specialist field and most high street practices will not have anyone who can help.

This case http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/624.html appears to have some consideration of the issues around s.181 and right to buy - you will see that this includes the names of the barristers representing each side, and the solicitors who instructed the claimant. You may find it worth while contacting that firm, or seeing if either of those barristers offer Direct Access.
(i should say I'm not familiar with the case or any of those involved,but if I were looking for an expert I'd start looking for people who have acted in similar cases in the past. )

Mokka

Thank you TBagpuss, it's very sweet of you to look into this. I've gone through existing RTB court cases and approached those firms that still exist. Most of the barristers who were involved are not Direct Access.

I have approached dozens of firms and nearly got the result, but not quite. And now it's too late for court action pre-contract signing.

As my solicitor promised to help and it would have been so much easier for him to obtain advice, it lulled me into false sense of security, and that's why I am angry with him.
Our household insurance covers us for solicitor negligence- this is something I keep bearing in mind.

So now I am taking it to the Ombudsman, hoping that all this will be sufficient to persuade her to consider our case, as she usually refuses to look into RTB cases, because 'the applicants have other remedies such as court action'.


What I would love to know, if there is anyone with legal knowledge out there, does statutory law trump contract law? We've made it perfectly clear that we are signing the contract under duress and the landlord is fully aware that their position is wrong. Can we still take action under Housing Act? We could probably make a convincing case for misfeasance in public office, as there was definitely a degree of personal animosity towards us.