Comprehensive Management Services Ltd - Robin Park Wigan

Coupon-mad

We also need to see the actual contractual full words on the other more detailed signs in the car park. But I would say for starters, the words:

'Please be aware, these retail outlets trading hours are not linked to Burger King or Carphone Warehouse'

...mean absolutely nothing to anyone. What does it tell you? Nothing at all about how that affects the parking restrictions! It's completely ambiguous and unclear what they mean. But no doubt the IAS Adjudicator won't agree...

dilbertuk

Thanks again folks. I'll get a photo of the other signage today but in the meantime I've received this from CMS:


"Unfortunately your comments are incorrect, we have not incorrectly asked youfor the driver details, this is an appeal therefore we can only correspondwith the driver of the vehicle as they were the ones that was issued theparking charge notice. We can't correspond with somebody that wasn't driving
the vehicle on the day in question.

I advise that you read Schedule 4 section 56 of the protection of freedomact, this explains that if the registered keeper fails to provide us withthe drivers details then we will pursue with keeper liability, if necessary.

Yours Sincerely
CM Services Ltd"



Are they right? Their original message did say they wouldn't respond to the appeal until I provided details of the driver of the vehicle which I understood was a bit naughty from the advice given above.

I've a feeling that thay have made this complicated on purpose! :mad:

bod1467

Typical prevarication, and utter bullocks.

I'd be tempted to go into Ignore mode ... I don't think these clowns have ever done court?

ampersand

'I've a feeling that they have made this complicated on purpose! ' - of course they have, dilbert, so stand easy and stick to the advice given.

[Let's fail them on grammar again, too - lack of punctuation, no possessive apostrophes, pl/sing 'mare '[COLOR="Red"]they were[/COLOR] the ones [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]that was[/COLOR] issued ' Have a Govian-lite moment]
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'We can't correspond with somebody that wasn't driving
the vehicle on the day in question.'
They have been, knowingly. How else have you received their pearls of ignorance?

Back to c-m:
' Remind them that the DVLA jointly issued a strict reminder NOT to delay replies to appeals by pretending that a driver has to be named:'

Warn them strongly that transgressions are being reported to IPC. It's wishful to think a '3 strikes and you're out' threat has muscle. It doesn't, but you must still complain.

#1, 5 days ago, you emailed the outlets from whom you hold proof of spending. RING THEM, COMPLAIN LOUDLY every day. Go up the food chain to someone with clout. CEO Co. details are here:
Email emeacommunications@whopper.com
Telephone 0800 169 0438
Use that Freephone number.
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Irrelevant atm, but if I saw that non-sense board at all, I have to say that ' "Parking Restrictions Apply Beyond This Point. Please be aware that these retail outlets trading hours are not linked to Burger King" 'would make me think 'Good, we can take our time then'.

Use 'Yours faithfully', not 'Kind regards'[which you can't mean] Y/f is correct for business anything. Show YOU know what you're about, even though they don't.

c-m's #12 - totally agree. The signage is meaningless, relevant to nothing and no-one in particular, apart from fact that one would have to 'transgress' in order to find 'internal signs'. Gives navel-gazing a whole 'nother dimension.

There is no section 56 in Schedule 4 of POFA. Are you supposed to guess they mean, sections 5 and 6:?

Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—
(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.
(2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or
(b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.
(2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.
#
So, 5 means you are in a hands-down situ, for a start.
Do post fuller pic info. as c-m asks, esp those entrance ones, should they exist.
#
When you 'complained to the local car park rep'#1, might you have inadvertently indicated who was driving?

Guys_Dad

Straight forward complaint to IPC, They are denying you the right, as keeper, to appeal, The IPC originally had this built into their appeal process with the IAS, but were forced to change it to allow keeper appeals.

Obviously their members have not caught on.

6. Operators͛ Internal Appeals Process
6.1 You are required to have your own internal appeals procedures. As a minimum, these
procedures must:
(a) Identify the appeals procedure including the manner in which appeals can be made, to
whom they should be made and the time frame for lodging an appeal.
(b) Allow a minimum of 21 days for the motorist to lodge an appeal.
(c) Allow for appeals to be made outside of the period which is usually allowed where there
are exceptional circumstances for not lodging the appeal within the normal time
allowed.
(d) Allow recipients of a parking charge notice the ability to make representations to you
regarding the issue of the charge.
(e) Require you to consider such representations and respond appropriately within 28 days.
(f) Notify the driver of your internal appeals procedures and notify them of the
Independent Appeals Service at the time of providing them with a Notice to Driver.
(g) Provide the Keeper with confirmation of your internal appeals procedures and notify
them of the Independent Appeals Service at the same time that you send a Notice to
Keeper.
6.2 If an appeal is unsuccessful then you must notify the appellant, at the same time as you
reject their appeal, that they have the right to further appeal to the IPC through the IAS.
6.3 You must not require payment of a charge whilst an appeal is being considered.
6.4 You must not require the motorist or keeper to submit a stamped-addressed envelope as a
pre-requisite for an appeal.

http://www.theipc.info/#!accredited-operator-scheme/c1yws

also look here

http://www.theipc.info/#!independent-appeals-service/citr

Coupon-mad

Seconded - complain to the IPC (obviously not talking about who was driving).

dilbertuk

Thanks again folks....and with apologies for the delay, here is the main sign.

http://1drv.ms/1rmw8b3

I am about to reply with the following - but any comments would be appreciated (and if the charge is cancelled I will make a charitable donation on behalf of you lot so you have to keep helping now :rotfl:)

If I understand your semi-literate response correctly, you are again stating that you will not respond to an appeal without the driver's details being notified to you.

Ergo, you are again denying my right as keeper to appeal.

This is in breach of the code of practice that you are obliged to adhere to. As you are rather shockingly unaware of your own code, please read the following:

6. Operators Appeals Process
6.1 You are required to have your own internal appeals procedures. As a minimum, these
procedures must:
(a) Identify the appeals procedure including the manner in which appeals can be made, to
whom they should be made and the time frame for lodging an appeal.
(b) Allow a minimum of 21 days for the motorist to lodge an appeal.
(c) Allow for appeals to be made outside of the period which is usually allowed where there
are exceptional circumstances for not lodging the appeal within the normal time
allowed.
(d) Allow recipients of a parking charge notice the ability to make representations to you
regarding the issue of the charge.
(e) Require you to consider such representations and respond appropriately within 28 days.
(f) Notify the driver of your internal appeals procedures and notify them of the
Independent Appeals Service at the time of providing them with a Notice to Driver.
(g) Provide the Keeper with confirmation of your internal appeals procedures and notify
them of the Independent Appeals Service at the same time that you send a Notice to
Keeper.
6.2 If an appeal is unsuccessful then you must notify the appellant, at the same time as you
reject their appeal, that they have the right to further appeal to the IPC through the IAS.
6.3 You must not require payment of a charge whilst an appeal is being considered.
6.4 You must not require the motorist or keeper to submit a stamped-addressed envelope as a
pre-requisite for an appeal.
I would again point out that you are in breach of this code by indicating that you will not proceed without a driver being named.

I would also point out that your earlier email unhelpfully referred me to non-existent legislation. This too will form part of my complaint.

I expect nothing less than cancellation of this ridiculous notice by return.

The_Deep

Getting away from all the legal stuff, I have looked on google earth and it seems natural to me that, if you have parked near Boots, it would be natura to walk to BK.

If this is going to cost you £100, the signage has to be VERY VERY clear, and from what I have seen, it is not. Something like

WARNING leaving this site and going to BK could cost you £100.

Personally, I would ignore and, if it got to court, let the judge rip the signage to pieces. I am sure that your local Trading Standards Department cannot be happy about this either.

ampersand

If necessary, later ammo. stage:
Camera angle suggests signage high, too high:-)? - backdrop indicates tall mature i.e. high:D treetop?...unless you knelt/lay down to aim camera up.

Magic words: CONTRACT AGREEMENT.
More magic words on entry sign: 'YOU WILL BE FINED' - doubt they've corrected/complied since Aug 2014 :-)

C-M will take her own action;):whistle: against ppc for using her trade-mark logo, bottom left quadrant, unless she has licensed this activity for handsome consideration:whistle:
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Quartet of good pics on this recent pepipoo Thread[last August]
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=92904, with comments from well-known mse experts multi-tasking :-) and landowner/managing agent info etc.etc.
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Have you used that freephone no? 0800 169 0438?
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http://completelyretail.co.uk/portfolio/MandG/scheme/Robin-Retail-Park-Wigan/index
and
http://www.mcmullenwilson.com/
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In this recent piece[5 Aug 2014]
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/business/11387357.A_bumper_year_for_retail_in_Welsh_new_town__says_M_amp_G_Real_Estate/
M&G apologist says 'Thanks to our commitment to driving changes based on consumer desires and needs, we ensure customers receive free parking and continuously enhanced accessibility. '

None of this should be needed. We await your news of 'FINE' CANCELLED em.

Coupon-mad

Yes send the complaint but send a copy to the IPC as well to complain that you are having to do this because their member is breaching the Code.