Granite worktop installation - help!

StatisticallyChallenged

The cat's a Maine Coon, he's meant to be massive

So we didn't get the promised phone call, and then yesterday got an email asking when we could expect payment! Replied saying that the repair was unsatisfactory and we expected replacement and they've basically refused and suggested we claim from the painter, as they've decided that he must have caused it. Looks like we are going to have a fight on our hands I really don't think this was the painter's fault - the installation was botched.

It's a small company, and the person who came out, templated, and then fitted it was the owner. So he really should have noticed. There were worktops in situ when the templating was done (which he damaged, didn't leave us with much choice about replacing them really!) so it's possible he didn't notice the washing machine location at that stage, but he certainly should have noticed when fitting it when all the worktops were off. There literally is not a single thing underneath any part of that join - not even a baton at the back.

CKdesigner

Hi

I agree with all the other comments above but also I think the templater / installer / business owner hasn't got much of a clue - you cannot template for new granite worktops if the existing laminate worktops are still in situ!

To be honest replacing laminate worktops with solid worktops is always fraught with danger and I simply won't do it. I think its a waste of time and money as often people think they can 'revive' their 10 year old (or more kitchen) and make it look like 'new' by replacing the worktops, but in reality you are making your 10 year old units look even more worn-out and putting even more stress on them as you are making your old units support a worksurface more than twice the weight of what they are used to!

I personally think this guy has thought he can make a quick few quid on this job but has now realised he messed it right up and will need to start again.

I hope you manage to get it sorted, at least you haven't paid for it.

CK

StatisticallyChallenged

The existing kitchen is actually pretty new - it's only about 20 months old, so the units are still very solid. Unfortunately when the original was installed the budget wasn't there for granite (not our choice, loooong story!) which would have been OK except the joiner messed up the sink cut out a little and water had been slowly getting in. It's interesting that you would normally say they needed removed first though as that wasn't even mentioned.

He templated straight over the top of the existing ones - when cutting his template he managed to score straight through the laminate too.

cyclonebri1

CKdesigner wrote: »

Hi

I agree with all the other comments above but also I think the templater / installer / business owner hasn't got much of a clue - you cannot template for new granite worktops if the existing laminate worktops are still in situ!

To be honest replacing laminate worktops with solid worktops is always fraught with danger and I simply won't do it. I think its a waste of time and money as often people think they can 'revive' their 10 year old (or more kitchen) and make it look like 'new' by replacing the worktops, but in reality you are making your 10 year old units look even more worn-out and putting even more stress on them as you are making your old units support a worksurface more than twice the weight of what they are used to!

I personally think this guy has thought he can make a quick few quid on this job but has now realised he messed it right up and will need to start again.

I hope you manage to get it sorted, at least you haven't paid for it.

CK

I have to disagree with you, I don't know if all or even most companies do this but ours, several other relatives and a few friends have had theirs done with the old tops on and the results have been perfect, from the 2 different companies involved.

Changing the subject back to the OP, NO SUPPORT AT THE WALL???:eek::eek::eek: Absolutely insane, they don't know what they are doing. Don't pay until this is resolved as I said earlier, it will cost them, or rather him from what you now say, he won't want to do it.

By the way where did you find these cowboys?, I doubt it was on personal recommendation.

StatisticallyChallenged

Yup, no support at the wall, I just double checked and if you look between the washing machine and the worktop there is absolutely nothing there - I can see straight back to the plaster.

Unfortunately we didn't know anyone who could recommend so we went with a relatively local small company - it's normally an approach which has served us well.

We've replied today saying either write off the invoice, or replace them. Or take us to court.

Here's a few photos - the old laminate one shows the layout, with the join on the new one being above the wide door to the left of the sink. The dark repair is the second attempt, the pale one the first. TBH, it looks a lot worse in real life, but I'm now more worried about how badly it's going to get damaged in the future
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk4bxKob

Ainsley1

I've recently had stone worktops installed by a local company. They were brilliant, fabulous service and attention to detail. Local companies can be much better than the big boys but you have not had one that was.

All the fault would appear to lie with the supplier/installer and suggest that you get advice on how to legally proceed. Try Which? legal services ( just a few pounds I think) to give you the advice or CAB to make sure you have done everything you need to do to ensure you are legally protected.

However I think (but this is not really worth anything) just withholding money might not be all you need to do but in practice the supplier might baulk at additional legal costs!

ryder72

Worktops must be templated with bare carcases for best results. Without taking the old tops off how would the templater know what the walls are doing,how level the units are, whether the front edges are straight or not etc. It may be that you had worktops that went in perfectly but i would say that was more chance than design. Any good templater/fabricator wont touch a job where they old tops are in place.

Looks like in the OP's situation, a one man band with a labourer and an angle grinder has taken a punt on the job and messed up. Insist on a replacement.

suisidevw

Agree with Ryder. Horrific.

StatisticallyChallenged

Can I ask those of you who know more about fitting granite, would you expect the granite to be directly in contact with the tops of the units the whole way along (ignoring the floating section!) or should there be a small amount of clearance? I just had a closer look i.e. got down to eye level, and most of the main run isn't actually touching the units at the front. It's not by much, but there is probably 2-6mm of clearance almost the whole way along. There are two big corner units, and looking at one of them the worktop is hard against the end panel, but not actually touching the front of the unit or the corner post.

Just wondering if it is worth us trying to adjust the unit legs to improve the support (in case we are stuck with these!)

Ainsley1

From just a little experience and speaking with known excellent installers:

All carcase supporting ends etc. adjusted for height to ensure flat bed surface along the whole length of sections prior to installing worktops. Minor variations shimmed, especially at section joints, to take up any odd 1-2mm remaining variations and then worktops bedded on silicone sealant/adhesive along carcase edges fronts and backs to ensure loads are spread and no voids exist at supporting locations.

That seems to be the ideal (others may know better/more) but end result is no significant regions without support.

Voids of 2-6mm may well cause problems especially with extra weight on worktops. This will obviously depend on the quality of the granite, thickness and width of sections, such as where there are weaker locations formed by cut outs around sinks etc.

Your void sizes add weight to the argument of a bad job! Even with a silicone bed that deep to fill those voids will flex and not provide adequate support, methinks. The installer ought to have sorted those problems - or refused to install - prior to top fixing.