Electrical goods stopped working - burden of proof

CMJS

Hi,

We've recently had a couple of electrical goods (a Bionaire fan with fancy electronic controller and a Pure digital radio) stop working at separate times (failed to turn on when switched on). I've checked elec supply, fuses, cables etc, turned the items off and on again a few times and pressed all the buttons, but none of these basic things fixed the problem. There are no signs of damage to either item and I do not know of them having been dropped, manhandled, or been subject to any other condition that could have caused the failure. They are both just over 4 years old and have had very low usage.

I suspect in both cases the problem is faulty electrical connections or ESD (electrostatic discharge) damage, however I cannot prove this without internal investigation which, as a consumer, surely I can't be expected to do.

Obviously I'd like the items to be replaced (combined value is ~£100), but I don't know where I stand with regard to 'burden of proof'. Is it (legally) sufficient to just show that they are externally undamaged but won't switch on? Or do I need professional proof (which would cost far more than the value of the items and therefore render my right meaningless)? All the websites I've looked at don't seem to go into this level of detail. The retailers are B&Q and Argos.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. ESD damage is when static charge (e.g. from hands or clothing during manufacture) flows into sensitive electrical components (e.g. microchips) causing damage the fine tracks that are within. The problem is that commonly, rather than destroying the tracks (which is detectable), it just weakens them (which is undetectable). Product failure then comes at a later date. Manufacturers have to take special ESD precautions but unfortunately these rely heavily on staff following procedures.

anmarj

You would need an independent report to show that they are inherently faulty.

forgotmyname

No. You need to prove that their product was faulty or had a design flaw which meant it was due to fail in a shorter time than expected.

2 items failing in a short time.. Do you have a wiring issue in your home?

mije1983

If they are 4 years old, the chances are they have now been discontinued and replaced by newer models, so a replacement would be difficult.

As they are valued at less than £100, I would imagine a repair will be uneconomical for the retailer.

This leaves you with a refund, which they are allowed to reduce for the 4 years usage you have had out of them. Rough maths, they were both £50 each and they have an expected lifespan of 5 years. That would leave you with a £10 refund for each.

However, before all this, you need to follow the above advice and get an independent report. If the report finds in your favour, the retailer will reimburse the cost to you. Unless of course, the retailer rolls over and doesn't require this from you.

I'd contact the retailers first, but if they demand a report to be done, I'd be tempted to just let it go. Not very MS I know, but you have to weigh up whether the effort is worth it.

Good luck.

DevCoder

ESD damage tends to cause issues fairly quickly, 4 years is pushing that theory to quite the extreme.

How are you going to prove that ESD damage occurred due to the original manufacturers not following ESD procedures? I doubt a normal electrician or even one specialising in SMD repairs would put a report that said ESD was the cause of a failure 4 years after purchase (and probably a bit longer than that after manufacture).

System

I would think any report that states ESD damage as the cause would indicate that the failure is due to the consumer for the above reason

CMJS

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I figured I'd probably have to provide more proof. How does one go about getting an independent report? Presumably it would cost far more money than the value of the items and I doubt the retailer would pick up the cost if it showed the product to be at fault.

So it seems this law doesn't really help consumers in such cases because proof is so difficult. At the end of the day I have two products of pretty decent brand that have been well looked after but have just stopped working after very little use (prob only 10% of a reasonable life based on 'on time'). I just can't afford to replace products at that rate!

I think I'm going to just give it go and see what happens. I have nothing to loose.

Thanks again.

Bantex_2

4 years from a 50 quid bit of kit seems fair to me.

Littlestars_2

As said 4 years is good use and cost wise to yourself would be easier to replace yourself. No harm in speaking to the retailers first of all to see what they say but otherwise you would need to get a report and prove its inherently faulty.

zenmaster

CMJS wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I figured I'd probably have to provide more proof. How does one go about getting an independent report? Presumably it would cost far more money than the value of the items and I doubt the retailer would pick up the cost if it showed the product to be at fault.

So it seems this law doesn't really help consumers in such cases because proof is so difficult. At the end of the day I have two products of pretty decent brand that have been well looked after but have just stopped working after very little use (prob only 10% of a reasonable life based on 'on time'). I just can't afford to replace products at that rate!

I think I'm going to just give it go and see what happens. I have nothing to loose.

Thanks again.

Yes they would, it's part of the law.

You would have to pick up the tab if the report went against you, though, and would end up doubly out of pocket.

LilElvis

CMJS wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I figured I'd probably have to provide more proof. How does one go about getting an independent report? Presumably it would cost far more money than the value of the items and I doubt the retailer would pick up the cost if it showed the product to be at fault.

So it seems this law doesn't really help consumers in such cases because proof is so difficult.At the end of the day I have two products of pretty decent brand that have been well looked after but have just stopped working after very little use (prob only 10% of a reasonable life based on 'on time'). I just can't afford to replace products at that rate!

I think I'm going to just give it go and see what happens. I have nothing to loose.

Thanks again.

This would suggest that, with your level of use, you expected these electrical items to have lasted for 40 years. In which case you are going to be disappointed time and time again with the longevity of your toaster, iron, washing machine, tv, coffee maker, hair dryer ........ All these items last for a significantly shorter time these days compared to similar items purchased a decade or two ago. Modern electrical products are significantly more technologically advanced, but are comparatively cheaper. My 20 year old Krups filter coffee/espresso machine is still working fine - it cost me £120. The far more advanced Bosch Tassimo one I purchased a month ago cost me £50 and in all honesty I will be happy if it lasts for 2 years.

If you want to pursue your claim that your items have failed prematurely then that is entirely your prerogative, but in my view it seems that they have lasted a reasonable time.