Help please? PCN at Lidl "not parked wholly within a marked bay"

Brand_X

Hello, I'm trying to put together an appeal against a Parking Charge Notice for a relative who parked at Lidl for under 10 minutes and got ticketed for being parked "not wholly within a marked bay", which I'm guessing means not being parked in a marked bay. But if you look at the picture you can see a green car parked there, and in fact there are usually cars parked there including the Lidl's manager's car. He's facing a £90 ticket because he forgot about it and went over the time limit that allows a £45 discount.

I don't doubt the spot is meant to be for staff only, but there are no signs up to say "no parking" or "staff only":



I have lots of photos but I can't post any because the forum won't allow me to post links! Err.. okay, lets try this:

1213.photobucket.com/user/Ninja_Butler/media/random%203/Lidl%20Taunton%20opposite%20Wood%20Street/IMG_0033.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

If you paste that into the URL bar it should add the http at the beginning.

pogofish

Have you read the Newbies Sticky - That gives you all the info you need to see these guys-off.

Brand_X

Thanks Pogo, yes I've been reading the newbie guide but I wanted to make sure I'm not making any mistakes. I'm going to send the "template" letter but I'm not sure if I should include details or add photos at this point or if I should wait until I get a reply from TPS.

Bloggs PPC
Anystreet
Anytown

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I refer to the above notice which I challenge, not as driver but as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and yet it is intended as a deterrent, so the charge is a penalty.
b). The signage on site is deficient, the wording unclear and it fails to comply with the Code of Practice.
c). In the absence of any evidence it is my case that you lack any or sufficient proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your notice was deficient and fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

This is my formal representation. There will be no admissions as to who was driving that day and no assumptions should be drawn in the absence of evidence. I have decided to appeal this as keeper and as such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or you must cancel the charge if you know you cannot claim keeper liability in this case. Please uphold this challenge or send a rejection letter, so I can escalate this matter to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

Yours faithfully

fisherjim

Try this:

http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/Ninja_Butler/media/random%203/Lidl%20Taunton%20opposite%20Wood%20Street/IMG_0031.jpg.html

Guys_Dad

I agree with pogofish, but your photos leave me utterly confused. Where about was the car parked? You have posted 9 seemingly random photos of cars in various positions, none conspiculously green except the Golf in picture#2.

Might have been more helpful with only 1 or 2 of the space in question and a few of the signs.

You will win with a standard GPEOL appeal (probably !) but I hate mysteries !!!!!

Brand_X

Hi GuysDad, sorry, I thought the picture would link directly. The vehicle was parked in about the same spot as where the green car with red wheels (the Golf) is parked, next to the wall. Second and third pictures. Yep, that's the one.

Guys_Dad

Ah! My mistake - I used fisherjim's link which hasn't got these 2 pictures in it (Try it!).

Fisherjim - get your link right!!!


Certainly doesn't look like a designated bay, but on the other hand, it doesn't scream "Don't park here" either. What do the signs say?

Worth a visit to the store manager and a loud complaint when you get the NtK.

Brand_X

The postal "Charge Notice" came a few days ago but I haven't replied to it yet because I had to take photos first. I don't know the full story, it could be that the driver (who shall remain nameless) might have been straddling the painted line or something - I have yet to see the Total Parking Solutions photograph.

I think I've got sensible grounds for an appeal because that space is used by people all the time, and on the day of the PCN the Lidl manager's car was parked there - the driver parked behind his car. I'm thinking, yes there's enough room for two cars, but only just.. was he over the painted line? Does it matter? ..not sure. Some people only ever give me half a story. :undecided

edit - There are the normal TPS signs around the car park and they say "Vehicles must park within the marked bays and not cause an obstruction". But at that spot where the car was parked it's as you see. No signs I can see and it does get used for short-stay parking.

Guys_Dad

But the wording on the sign is important and it is best if we saw it.

Your appeal, if as outlined in previous post, will fail as it is a form of mitigation and PPCs and POPLA don't do mitigation.

It might work with the store, but please don't base your PPC/POPLA appeal on previous post.

Coupon-mad

Overall impression from all the photos is that you could park up and walk to/from the shop without ever reading a TPS sign - they are certainly not bright 'with a red hand pointing to it' (i.e. not so prominent that a driver must have seen them) and nor is the space clear that there is no parking allowed.

But you will win on no GPEOL so relax and read the examples in the 'How to win at POPLA' link in post #3 of the Newbies thread.

Brand_X

Thanks all, I'll send an appeal now. There was no other car in the space (manager's car parked further down) so that makes things simpler.

:beer:

Update: Nothing ever happened; I sent the appeal, the email was acknowledged, and that was it. Nothing more heard about it.