CPM Parking Fine in Estate

Coupon-mad

The only reason I included UKCPM in the ones to start a new thread about was because last year someone lost at POPLA (at first). The appeal was good but the newish POPLA Assessor misread the sign and thought it meant the charge was 'consideration' rather than 'compensation for breach'. The Assessor was certainly wrong because the word 'contractual' in a sign does not automatically make it a 'contractual fee' (consideration). It was obviously a charge for breach! Anyway it took six months before the complaint that followed ended up with the decision being reversed by POPLA, helped by the fact the PPC had never sent the OP any evidence which meant the door to POPLA could be easily re-opened.

So there's nothing special about them but read the lesnmandy thread to see what happened. We just want people to avoid that possibility by focussing carefully when it gets to POPLA stage and not rush to submit a generic version without us helping.

bartmatt

Hello,

I have waited nearly a month

I now have received the "Formal Demand" letter from CPM for £100 it states the following:

In accordance with the signage that is clearly and prominently displayed on the site, those drivers who break the terms and conditions of parking a liable to pay a charge. We have requested your details from the DVLA as the registered keeper of the vehicle, through the reasonable cause criteria of pursuing an outstanding parking charge.

If you were not the keeper (even though you are stated as being the registered keeper on the vehicles V5 document) of the vehicle at the time it was parked .......

What now? Do I send the letter template as shown from the newbie thread?

Thank You

Umkomaas

Do they mention any of 'Notice to Keeper', 'the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012', 'keeper liability', 'POPLA appeal' in their letter?

bartmatt

Hello,

Thanks for the response.

We now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. If within 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012, we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle. Your case will then be passed to our debt recovery agent which may escalate to court proceedings to recover the amount owed. The overdue amount will increase to £149.00 in the first instance of action.

?

Thank You

bartmatt

Any information on what to do now?

Thanks

bazster

You've already said it, appeal in the standard way.

You might also warn them that any further interference with your vehicle will be regarded as trespass to property, leaving them liable for damages. Copy to the managing agents, telling them that they will be held liable for the actions of their agent.

bartmatt

I might be really dumb here because everyone is giving me great advice but I still cant get my head around this.

So the template letter in the newbie thread is what I shall send them with the added information from bazster?

Would this be ok to send:

My Name
My Address

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ??????

I refer to the above notice which I challenge, not as driver but as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and yet it is intended as a deterrent, so the charge is a penalty.
b). The signage on site is deficient, the wording unclear and it fails to comply with the Code of Practice.
c). In the absence of any evidence it is my case that you lack any or sufficient proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your notice was deficient and fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

This is my formal representation. There will be no admissions as to who was driving that day and no assumptions should be drawn in the absence of evidence. I have decided to appeal this as keeper and as such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or you must cancel the charge if you know you cannot claim keeper liability in this case. Please uphold this challenge or send a rejection letter, so I can escalate this matter to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

Also any further interference as the keeper of the car will be regarded as trespass to the property and further action will be taken.

Yours faithful

My Name

?

bartmatt

My mistake as I did not know there was an updated template in the newbie thread.

This is now my revised letter:

My Name
My Address

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No: ??????

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and also breaches the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regs 2013.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.

The purpose of this communication is threefold:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn in the absence of evidence. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or prove beyond any doubt who was driving - or cancel the charge. I strongly urge you to uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case. I will then escalate this appeal to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law, reading your Notice and responding, despite a lack of contract. I calculate both my costs and yours to be under £15 at this early stage, therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my expenses.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged contract which was never properly offered or explained by you. The charge is not acknowledged, is not due and no 'service contract' from you was ever expressly requested by the driver or by me. Neither the driver nor myself gave 'prior express consent' or any consent at all for any contract to exist and it is not for me to pay an extravagant sum just because you chose to foist unexpected and non-negotiated onerous terms upon any driver of my vehicle. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - your IAS or POPLA, then the contract still ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies.

As well as not meeting the requirements of the POFA 2012, you have clearly breached the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regs 2013. Even if your contract is found not to be a 'distance contract' (which I say it is), it is a fact that providing the use of a parking bay is a contract which must follow the provisions of these new Regulations. You have failed to provide the required information for consumer contracts in a 'durable medium' in advance and you have failed to obtain 'express agreement' from the driver; a form of specific consent which cannot flow from a sign.

By replying to the challenge, you will also be acknowledging receipt, understanding and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you do not now cancel, then I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs which are likely to exceed £100 if you ignore the fact I have cancelled the contract, should you now proceed to independent appeal and/or small claims court.

Only reply with a rejection letter if you understand and accept your future liability, since I have already openly indicated the main points of appeal and have pointed out that your contract breaches current UK Regulations which were introduced in 2014 to protect consumers in a consistent manner. I have also cancelled any contract that you may think exists. If you choose to refuse my drop hands offer, you accept liability for my expenses and time wasted on repeating my points at further appeal stage and in court if necessary.

Where sent by post I have obtained proof of posting. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days and urge you to accept the drop hands offer and accept that I have cancelled any 'contract' because this resolves the dispute without cost.

Also any further interference as the keeper of the car will be regarded as trespass to the property and further action will be taken.

Yours faithfully,



My Name

bazster

Pretty good. Personally I would avoid implying that I even know who the driver was. See below.

My Name
My Address

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ??????

I refer to the above notice which I challenge, as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and is intended as a deterrent, so the charge is an unenforceable penalty.
b). The signage on site is deficient, the wording unclear and it fails to comply with the BPA Code of Practice.
c). In the absence of any evidence it is my case that you lack any or sufficient proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your notice was deficient and fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

This is my formal representation. I am keeper of the vehicle and as such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or you must cancel the charge if you know you cannot claim keeper liability in this case. Please uphold this challenge or send a rejection letter, so I can escalate this matter to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

You are under notice that any further interference with my car will be regarded as trespass to property leaving you liable to an action for damages.

Yours faithfully

My Name

bazster

Posts crossed! Go with whichever you are comfortable with. It's not that important at this stage, PoPLA is where you will win.