CPM UK Car Park Management ticket

Sphereo

Hi there

I'd be very grateful for any advice I could get regarding a ticket I got on the windscreen of my hire car a week ago, whilst outside the Vista Business Centre in Hounslow getting a visa.

I've read the newbie threads and understand the fact I bought a ticket makes no difference now, and I need to act quickly before they request payment off the hire car company.

Given this is one of the companies where you're advised to post photos of the signs I've done so. There were two slightly different ones.

Would appreciate knowing if using the standard template here is Ok or if there's a better course of action.

i.imgur.com/7qEeCVr.jpg

i.imgur.com/bOPa7e5.jpg

Coupon-mad

Welcome!

These are typical CPM signs:

http://i.imgur.com/7qEeCVr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bOPa7e5.jpg

They pretend it's a contractual fee but it's not because clearly there is an obligation 'you must' display a permit. Anything else is 'unauthorised' or 'without permission' which is good because it means the charge must be shown to be a GPEOL. And they won't be able to!

You are fine to use the template first appeal in the Newbies thread - but change it to say you were the driver (rather than keeper) and remove the new bit at the bottom where I say that the appellant 'will not be naming the driver'. Get a 'certificate of posting' the challenge ordinary 1st class post (NOT a signed-for service) which is a receipt from your local PO counter. Or send it by email, if the PCN allows appeals to be submitted that way or online.

Sphereo

Wow, thanks Coupon-mad Very grateful for the advice, I'll make sure I post in the other thread on the outcome.

Dee140157

You will probably need to come back here for the second stage appeal. Keep all your questions to the one thread. It makes life much easier for us. We only ask you post winning decisions on the POPLA decisions thread when you get them. But also in your own thread in case others find it.

Sphereo

Hey there

Ok, I've had the reply and as expected the appeal to UKCPM was unsuccessful, they came back with the following:

- The vehicle did not display a valid permit in the windscreen
- The photographic evidence of your vehicle supports the above statement
- The signage clearly states "PRIVATE PARKING - BAYS 1-150 (Blue Permits) (There is also a photo of the car in one of those numbered bays.)
- In order for a vehicle to be parked correctly a valid CPM parking permit must be clearly displayed within the vehicle windscreen at all times. The photographic evidence of your vehicle shows that at the time of the contravention a valid CPM parking permit was not displayed, therefore you had breached parking regulations within the area and were subsequently issues with a parking charge notice
- It is the driver's responsibility wen leaving their vehicle unattended to observe the area and check parking is permitted. There is clear signage placed throughout the car parking areas stating the land is private and restrictions apply

I'd really appreciate some advice re the POPLA appeal for a couple of reasons:

- As mentioned before, it was a hire car so in my letter to UKCPM I identified myself as the driver as suggested. I'm not sure if this still applies to hire cars, or if I have to therefore word differently.

- The standard template for UKCPM in the sticky refers to a few of things that may or may not be relevant, and I wanted to check how much I should adapt. Specifically:

a) it refers to a code being displayed in the windscreen, however the letter I've received includes 3 photos, one of which is of the windscreen
b) I'm unclear about the signage point and how much of a case I have there, I don't know if it should be included regardless
c) I don't know how much the point about private bays changes anything. I have no recollection of blue or red permits, or even if you can get them both from the machine.

Very grateful for any advice

Coupon-mad

Signage must be included, regardless. You would be saying the wording on the main 'have you paid & displayed?' sign is unclear since you did pay and had no idea that you could be charged further. Checking the sign you see that on the left in much smaller font size - and not in thick blue bold writing like the £3 tariff - is some hidden wording about what they call a 'parking charge fee' (which is in fact a charge for alleged breach = 'parking without permission'). Also the rejection letter confirms this is intended as a deterrent - a charge for failure to comply with alleged terms: ''at the time of the contravention a valid CPM parking permit was not displayed, therefore you had breached parking regulations within the area.''

But the sign fails to state what behaviour gives rise to that so-called parking charge fee except a vague 'parking without permission'. No other contraventions are listed on that sign which give rise to a PCN; certainly not a contravention described as 'failure to display'.


Make sure the version you adapt is one where the no GPEOL paragraph is quite detailed and mentions the fact there was no initial loss because you did pay, and so there can be no consequential loss.

Show us your draft first. UKCPM are known to give up when they see a decent forum-helped POPLA appeal, such as here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4975147

You can see he's just updated his thread to confirm he won and UKCPM showed POPLA no evidence at all. They knew when they were beaten.