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APCOA and Council Penalties may all have to be repaid - £100 million?

Umkomaas
Umkomaas Posts: 44,454 Forumite
Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
in Parking tickets, fines & parking
This has been linked in another thread by BABYQ333. From today's Independent it exposes how APCOA (and presumably other PPCs) who have been dealing with council penalty charges have been allowed (incorrectly) to also undertake the first line appeals process.

Big refunds potentially (£100m), and causing panic among council officials.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/drivers-may-reclaim-millions-in-unfair-parking-fines-9746466.html

The only comment that APCOA could proffer was:
A spokesman for Apcoa said: “Naturally, as a private contractor, Apcoa operates within the guidelines set by the British Parking Association, and are compliant with the Traffic Management Act 2004.”

Which suggests to me that they have no real understanding about what's going on here, but are holding up their only shield (or is that straw) - the good old BPA!
Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

#Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
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Comments

  • Half_way
    Half_way Posts: 7,732 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 21 September 2014 at 1:15PM
    Ahh the good old BPA, which the plain language commission has described as
    The BPA has done little to curb its members excesses. Its previous investigations onto similar concerns have tended to produce reports that exonerate the parking firms. As a private company, the BPA is accountable only to its members. Given this hypocrisy about ''raising standards', its pious annual adoption of a 'residents charity' which it urges members to support (using money taken from drivers ), and the way it seems to retain the blind trust of government ministers, the BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organizations in the UK
    taken from http://www.clearest.co.uk/pages/publications/articlesbyourteam/parking-language/ParkingEyes_unclear_signs_plague_hospital_patients_and_visitors
    in an article about parking at queens hospital, Burton upon Trent, Derbyshire.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,269 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I bet they try to find, desperately, to find an appeal route.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • HO87
    HO87 Posts: 4,296 Forumite
    Ah yes, the figure that that is being bandied about is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Oh hang on...
    My very sincere apologies for those hoping to request off-board assistance but I am now so inundated with requests that in order to do justice to those "already in the system" I am no longer accepting PM's and am unlikely to do so for the foreseeable future (August 2016). :(

    For those seeking more detailed advice and guidance regarding small claims cases arising from private parking issues I recommend that you visit the Private Parking forum on PePiPoo.com
  • bazster
    bazster Posts: 7,436 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    " it would be a conflict of interest for a company to examine its own possible mistakes."

    No sh|t Sherlock!
    Je suis Charlie.
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Great news and all that but it all seems a bit petty to me - although this time petty is on our side.

    Let me explain. If a Council has its own traffic wardens, does one not appeal in the first instance to the Council? And in the PPC area, does one not appeal to the PPC first?

    In both cases, the appeal is to the financially interested party with a 2nd line appeal to an independent adjudication service.

    So why is it not a similar conflict of interests in the above 2 situations and only a conflict when a Parking company is employed by a council?

    Don't get me wrong. I am delighted at the news, particularly if any contract has the Parking company having rights to the "fines" as it will be them who initially may have to pay the refunds, but I am still puzzled by why the situation in the Independent article is different from any other parking first line appeal.
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    £100 million seems a huge exaggeration to me. How many councils use PPCs to manage car parks in this way. I know of only one small car park in Reading which is managed by NCP and even then I am not sure what sort of appeal system they operate.

    In any case, is Council owned land covered by POPLA?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • bazster
    bazster Posts: 7,436 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    In theory a council is not a financially-interested party because it's not permitted to use parking fines for revenue raising. In theory...
    Je suis Charlie.
  • Hot_Bring
    Hot_Bring Posts: 1,596 Forumite
    The_Deep wrote: »
    £100 million seems a huge exaggeration to me. How many councils use PPCs to manage car parks in this way. I know of only one small car park in Reading which is managed by NCP and even then I am not sure what sort of appeal system they operate.

    In any case, is Council owned land covered by POPLA?

    All council car parks in Brighton and Hove are managed by NCP as are Birmingham City Council car parks ( one of the biggest councils in the country ).
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis." - Dante Alighieri
  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
    The_Deep wrote: »
    In any case, is Council owned land covered by POPLA?

    As far as I understand, No. The clue is in the name - Parking On Private Land Appeals. Council land is technically owned by the constituents that the council serves.
  • Hot_Bring
    Hot_Bring Posts: 1,596 Forumite
    bazster wrote: »
    In theory a council is not a financially-interested party because it's not permitted to use parking fines for revenue raising. In theory...

    Unless that revenue is spent on transport - i.e. Brighton & Hove used their £16m a year 'profit' on bus passes for the elderly and cycle lanes.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis." - Dante Alighieri
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