Will issues.

getmore4less

A DOV is used to mitigate TAX where gifting could cause issues

The amounts involved are so low a DOV would be a waste of money.

The gifts would fall within the annual exemption so unless the sisters are allready using that there is no reason to even consider a DOV in this case.

Mojisola

getmore4less wrote: »

A DOV is used to mitigate TAX where gifting could cause issues

The amounts involved are so low a DOV would be a waste of money.

The gifts would fall within the annual exemption so unless the sisters are allready using that there is no reason to even consider a DOV in this case.

It can also be worth doing if there is a risk that beneficiaries might agree to hand over the money and then change their minds once their inheritance is in their accounts.

As everyone seems to be in agreement in this case, the simple way would be easiest and cheapest.

me_again_2

The saga continues. I hope this is the right section...

Seems there was not as much there as I initially thought. Extra costs for the funeral and it seems like he paid very little towards his bills over the past year or so.

Overpayment of pensions, Housing and Council tax benefits and arrears exceeds the amount of money left over.

Hopefully I did everything right. Obviously I had no choice but to pay the funeral expenses, But I also paid for the food/flowers after the funeral out of his money thinking there would be enough and saved asking for donations towards anything.

No property except his furniture which we donated. At the time we didn't know there would be a shortfall otherwise we could probably have got a bit of money for it.
But then we would have had the property longer and had to pay more rent i guess.

So we have, Council tax arrears, overpayment of rent and council tax benefits. (he only got part benefits).
Overpayment of the pension. Water, Gas and Phone...etc..

So the initial issues of sharing anything out is no longer a problem. Nobody will get anything.

They may whinge a bit and say why didnt you sell the TV and furniture rather than donate it. But its all too late now.

Anyway back to my question. No secured debts. So do i just send them all a chq for a fix % of the amount owed?
So pensions service and council tax etc... all get 70% of what they are asking for? With a note saying after funeral costs this is all thats left.

Thank you

G6JNS

me_again wrote: »

The saga continues. I hope this is the right section...

Seems there was not as much there as I initially thought. Extra costs for the funeral and it seems like he paid very little towards his bills over the past year or so.

Overpayment of pensions, Housing and Council tax benefits and arrears exceeds the amount of money left over.

Hopefully I did everything right. Obviously I had no choice but to pay the funeral expenses, But I also paid for the food/flowers after the funeral out of his money thinking there would be enough and saved asking for donations towards anything.

No property except his furniture which we donated. At the time we didn't know there would be a shortfall otherwise we could probably have got a bit of money for it.
But then we would have had the property longer and had to pay more rent i guess.

So we have, Council tax arrears, overpayment of rent and council tax benefits. (he only got part benefits).
Overpayment of the pension. Water, Gas and Phone...etc..

So the initial issues of sharing anything out is no longer a problem. Nobody will get anything.

They may whinge a bit and say why didnt you sell the TV and furniture rather than donate it. But its all too late now.

Anyway back to my question. No secured debts. So do i just send them all a chq for a fix % of the amount owed?
So pensions service and council tax etc... all get 70% of what they are asking for? With a note saying after funeral costs this is all thats left.

Thank you

I am sorry to say that you seem to be in serious trouble. Meddling in an estate in this way could leave you liable for the losses and debts. You need urgent professional advice before you do anything else. I am assuming you are the executor.

me_again_2

eh? How am I meddling with the estate? Bills had to be paid.

We couldn't have had the funeral if I had not paid the balance. OK flowers and the small buffet could have been missed. But at that time I knew nothing about the council not billing for utilities for 18 months.

Flowers and buffet came to £250. So not a huge amount and even without that the shortfall is way more.

Giving the furniture to charity was in my opinion saying us costs. We could have kept the property for another month whilst we sold it at £100+ a week rent. + council tax etc.

Not my fault its taken the Council 3 months to send us the bills. I have had no reply as to why he has not been billed for the utilities for well over a year.

getmore4less

me_again wrote: »

eh? How am I meddling with the estate? Bills had to be paid.

We couldn't have had the funeral if I had not paid the balance. OK flowers and the small buffet could have been missed. But at that time I knew nothing about the council not billing for utilities for 18 months.

Flowers and buffet came to £250. So not a huge amount and even without that the shortfall is way more.

Giving the furniture to charity was in my opinion saying us costs. We could have kept the property for another month whilst we sold it at £100+ a week rent. + council tax etc.

Not my fault its taken the Council 3 months to send us the bills. I have had no reply as to why he has not been billed for the utilities for well over a year.

Intermeddling in an estate is a technical term worth looking up.

What many don't realise that if an estate is insolvent you don't have to get involved.

Not all actions are intermeddling but it looks like you may be in that area as you have done some things that could be considered as taking on the role.

That said I would stop any further payments till you are happy with the rules of distribution and your best next step.

A read of the insolvent estate guidance from step might help

http://www.step.org/insolvent-estates

also look up section 27 of the Trustees act.

One thing to be wary of is any payments that came in after date of death may need to treated separately from the assets/debts at date of death.

BobQ

G6JNS wrote: »

I am sorry to say that you seem to be in serious trouble. Meddling in an estate in this way could leave you liable for the losses and debts. You need urgent professional advice before you do anything else. I am assuming you are the executor.

How is this meddling? There is a will appointing an executor who is performing the role (with the OPs help) They have the authority and are not seeking to avoid it.

It may have been unwise to take on this responsibility without checking the estate is solvent but they are doing nothing wrong and there are some complexities to deal with but that is not necessarily meddling if they can justify the actions taken.

Arranging a funeral is not necessarily done by an executor. The executor has to agree to pay for the funeral if the estate is to fund it. Assuming the funeral was a basic one the estate is entitled to pay for it. The costs of the food is not a legitimate charge on the state so the OP or others will need to pay that.

G6JNS

BobQ wrote: »

How is this meddling? There is a will appointing an executor who is performing the role (with the OPs help) They have the authority and are not seeking to avoid it.

It may have been unwise to take on this responsibility without checking the estate is solvent but they are doing nothing wrong and there are some complexities to deal with but that is not necessarily meddling if they can justify the actions taken.

Arranging a funeral is not necessarily done by an executor. The executor has to agree to pay for the funeral if the estate is to fund it. Assuming the funeral was a basic one the estate is entitled to pay for it. The costs of the food is not a legitimate charge on the state so the OP or others will need to pay that.

From what the OP says she has dealt with estate's assets without any authority. This may well have been done from the best motives but that will not always excuse the OP from the consequences. Expenditure has been made also without authority. There are clear rules as to what may or may not be done. As getmore4less less says "intermeddling" often abbreviated to meddling in an estate can result in the person concerned becoming liable for any losses. The OP stated thatthe funeral could not have been held unless they paid. This is simply untrue. The OP did not make proper enquiries before intermeddling.

getmore4less

As the executors powers come from the will and I think we can asume the OP is acting for the executor(their partner) they do have the authority to do stuff.

The current issue comes down to an inventory and account which will establish the distribution.

As it now appears the estate is insolvent a carefull read of some relevent info on dealing with insolvent estates is a sensible step as will a section27.

I would argue that the OPs handling of the residence and contents is(subject to the limited detail) probably OK as the contents are traditionaly worthless unless there are known things of value. Removing liability from the estate of the property and associated costs will be seen as in the best interst of the creditors if presented sensibly if asked.

The funeral cost may not be fully acceptable to the creditors but that is something to look at.

I would focus on the inventory and account and any creditor that gets a bit hungry gets a note to say that you are still investigating the full extent of the debts at this time.

Lets be real here,
losses to the estate limited to none as the stuff is probably not worth much if anything after estimated costs.
Overspend on the funeral, limited.

Unless there is something else I suspect the risks of any serious attempt to make the executor and their helpers liable for anything is slim as long as the inventory and account looks OK.

I would probably try and get someone to look over it but the potential costs of doing that will result in a significant reduction in the distribution and creditors know that.

Certainly worth spending some time getting this as right as possible as the creditors will want to see the numbers if there is a shortfall.

Definately worth double checking council and DWP and the utilities they are know to get things wrong.

I suspect that now the estate is insolvent dealing with the creditors might be easier than dealing with the family.

Take your time and think things through and try a bit of research there are quite a lot of examples on the net from varioius people and you get a good feel for things, especialy dealing with each of the creditors you will not be the first.

G6JNS

getmore4less wrote: »

As the executors powers come from the will and I think we can asume the OP is acting for the executor(their partner) they do have the authority to do stuff.

The current issue comes down to an inventory and account which will establish the distribution.

As it now appears the estate is insolvent a carefull read of some relevent info on dealing with insolvent estates is a sensible step as will a section27.

I would argue that the OPs handling of the residence and contents is(subject to the limited detail) probably OK as the contents are traditionaly worthless unless there are known things of value. Removing liability from the estate of the property and associated costs will be seen as in the best interst of the creditors if presented sensibly if asked.

The funeral cost may not be fully acceptable to the creditors but that is something to look at.

I would focus on the inventory and account and any creditor that gets a bit hungry gets a note to say that you are still investigating the full extent of the debts at this time.

Lets be real here,
losses to the estate limited to none as the stuff is probably not worth much if anything after estimated costs.
Overspend on the funeral, limited.

Unless there is something else I suspect the risks of any serious attempt to make the executor and their helpers liable for anything is slim as long as the inventory and account looks OK.

I would probably try and get someone to look over it but the potential costs of doing that will result in a significant reduction in the distribution and creditors know that.

Certainly worth spending some time getting this as right as possible as the creditors will want to see the numbers if there is a shortfall.

Definately worth double checking council and DWP and the utilities they are know to get things wrong.

I suspect that now the estate is insolvent dealing with the creditors might be easier than dealing with the family.

Take your time and think things through and try a bit of research there are quite a lot of examples on the net from varioius people and you get a good feel for things, especialy dealing with each of the creditors you will not be the first.

The glib remark that the house contents are "traditionally worthless" is simply wrong. It may not be worth a lot but it often does have a value albeit this may only be a few hundred pounds. Taking such a cavalier attitude to the contents is not appropriate unless the place is a tip. In fact the whole problem seems to have come about because nobody seems to have taken much care about how anything was done. Also remember that people other than the OP read this board and are looking for information they may use in future. Helping them avoid similar mistakes in future is helpful as well as to the current person wanting help.