G24 parking notice - help!

H....

Hi All,


I'm new to the forum but have been reading through lots of posts (including the sticky), and have responded to G24's contractual parking notice. I responded with:


Dear G24,


Re: PCN No. XXXXXXXX


I refer to the above notice which I appeal against, as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:
a) The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of yours or your principal's loss.
b) The signage on site is deficient and fails to comply with the British Parking Association's Code of Practice, Annexe B.
c) In the absence of any evidence it is my case that you lack any or sufficient proprietary interest in the land.
d) Your notice was deficient and fails to comply with Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act.


Please uphold this appeal or send a rejection letter so I can escalate this matter to the independent service offered by your Trade Body. Any further correspondence other than a confirmation of cancellation or a POPLA code will be considered harassment and could result in legal action being taken against you.


Yours,


XXXXXXXX


Following this they have now replied (rather promptly, as I only sent this morning) with:




Dear Mr XXXXXXXXXX

RE: Contractual Parking Charge Notice XXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your email.

We respond as follows :

1. In relation to your suggestion that your parking charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss we confirm we have obtained legal advice in this regard and have been advised that not only can our parking charges be justified on the basis that they are in line with the British Parking Association’s guidelines, and that they amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss, but they are likely to amount to liquidated damages (where the issue of pre-estimate of loss is not relevant). This is because the Court’s position is that where the parties to a contract agree to fix the amount which is to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract - which is the basis of the contract detailed on our signage - a sum stipulated in this way (particularly in circumstances where there is difficulty in calculating a precise estimation) is classed as liquidated damages. Either way, our parking charges are fully enforceable and no not amount to a “penalty”. You should also be aware that in accordance with the case of Robophone Facilities v Blank the onus of proving that an amount claimed is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge is claimed);

2. You do not specify in what regard you consider our signage does not conform to the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice. Accordingly, we are unable to respond specifically. However, we are able to confirm to you that we are confident that all our signage does comply with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice and this is supported by the fact that we have been successfully audited successfully by an independent assessor on behalf of the British Parking Association; and

3. Again, you do not specify in which way you allege we not have authority to issue charges over the land where the car park is located. However, we can assure you that the parking management at the car park where you received a parking charge has been contracted to us. Again, we are able to confirm that we have been successfully audited by an independent assessor on behalf of the British Parking Association.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :

“parking charge”

(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and

(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...

... “relevant obligation” means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...

... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles

(when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".

In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.

The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.

You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords with the recommendations of the British Parking Association, of which we are a member.

After consideration of the information provided by you, your dispute has been unsuccessful as proof of purchase has not been supplied for the day in question therefore the Contractual Parking Charge Notice still applies. As we have extensively investigated this Contractual Parking Charge Notice and provided you with the results of our investigation, no further investigation will be undertaken.

You now have one of the following options available to you:

1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0845 452 7777 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

2. Make an appeal to POPLA within 28 days - The Independent Appeals Service by completing the accompanying form or by making your appeal online at XXXXXX your POPLA verification code is: XXXXXXXX. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of £60.00 will be at end. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

4. Supply copies of your receipts for the day in question or your bank statement with your private details erased showing the transaction(s) on our client's site within 14 days. Please do not send in original documents as they will not be returned.

Customer Services
G24 Ltd





I'd really appreciate any help or advice you could give me on what to do next!
Thanks in advance,
H

H....

Sorry for the double post, just for your info this was at around 11pm at night and I had not bought anything from the store. I overstayed for 29 minutes.

Redx

your first mistake was in contacting G24, giving yourself away as driver

you should have waited for the NTK to arrive, then appealed as RK

now you need to use the popla code at popla so have a look at post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

H....

Redx wrote: »

your first mistake was in contacting G24, giving yourself away as driver

you should have waited for the NTK to arrive, then appealed as RK

now you need to use the popla code at popla so have a look at post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

Hi,


Thanks for your reply. I got an NTK through the post (as it was an ANPR camera system). Hence why I only identified myself as the keeper in my email to them.


They seem like they're quite sure of themselves and have shot down all of the arguments I used (as mentioned in the sticky). Is this normal or should I pay the £60?


Thanks,


H

Redx

all bluster and bluff, but then they would say that to rob you of £60 , wouldnt they ?

man up and use pople and dont believe a word they say, I doubt they gave you any proof to back up their claims

so how much did they lose as a gpeol ? £1 ? , nothing ? , or £60 or £100 ?

I think I know the answer to that, without asking the audience

you said it happened last night , they dont issue an NTK that quick

H....

Redx wrote: »

all bluster and bluff, but then they would say that to rob you of £60 , wouldnt they ?

man up and use pople and dont believe a word they say, I doubt they gave you any proof to back up their claims

so how much did they lose as a gpeol ? £1 ? , nothing ? , or £60 or £100 ?

I think I know the answer to that, without asking the audience

you said it happened last night , they dont issue an NTK that quick

Ok I'll use the POPLA option then, but I'm really not sure what to put as I've never done this before! I'm 19 and this is my first parking ticket.


I said it happened at 11pm at night, I didn't specify a date.


I'd really appreciate some advice on what to write to POPLA in my particular case (having not bought anything and been parked there so late, wayyy past when the shops are open).


Thanks,


H

Redx

H.... wrote: »

Ok I'll use the POPLA option then, but I'm really not sure what to put as I've never done this before! I'm 19 and this is my first parking ticket.


I said it happened at 11pm at night, I didn't specify a date.


I'd really appreciate some advice on what to write to POPLA in my particular case (having not bought anything and been parked there so late, wayyy past when the shops are open).


Thanks,


H

the last paragraph of post #3 told you where to look for that info m8

"what happened" on the day is not relevant to your appeal

ampersand

Check the validity of your POPLA code here:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/popla-code-checker.html

Then back to newbies thread, post 3 to read again and start on your popla draft.
Within that post, ALL of it, pay particular attention here. c-m has emboldened it for a reason:
IF YOURS IS IAS (AN IPC MEMBER) I RECOMMEND NOT WRITING A TEMPLATE APPEAL, NOT LIKE POPLA! MORE LIKE A COURT DEFENCE WITH EVIDENCE ATTACHED; ASSUME THE PPC WILL NOT PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE TO HELP YOU SO YOU MUST ATTACH YOUR DODGY NTK AND SIGNAGE:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66305210#Comment_66305210 Recent winning IAS appeals

When that's been checked here, be sure to obtain good old-fashioned proof of posting, in view of this newbie's experience-
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5065259

Umkomaas

@H....

If you go to the NEWBIES sticky (you've obviously used it previously, well done on that) look at post #3 'How to win at POPLA' and look at some of the example POPLA appeals, select one that has characteristics that would cover your situation, copy and paste, adapt around the edges to more closely reflect your parking event and then post it up on this thread for us to give it the 'once over'.

Don't get involved in 'telling your story' (mitigation) to POPLA as it will not carry any sway - save your breath and typing time.

ampersand

op - here's a new-minted IAS success:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5065113

- if you want more encouragement.
#
Any old/new/changed signs at site of parking event?
#
Here is a spearate Thread started recently by Dee, just for IAS outcomes.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66545420#Comment_66545420

Pay particular attention to #9 and #10, to see how/why one failed. Stick to mse for sound up-to-date guidance.

Coupon-mad

Yes but G24 are POPLA (BPA) so it will be easy. Just search this forum for 'G24 POPLA' to find other ones to copy.