CEL court letter from parking Aug 2011!

tigerseye2001

Hi,

I am a newbie on here and have been having a look through the parking posts but cannot find the answer I need.

Da_rule's chart suggests that (as my parking incident occurred on the 8th Aug 2011) I can ignore my PCN from CEL, (which I have been doing since 2011 when the first letter came).

Unfortunately I haven't retained the first few letters as, after I ignored them, they stopped (or so I thought!), and so I have either mislaid them or got rid of them. Even so, I have now received two letters in the last 3 months saying they are going to take me to court.

Due to my ticket being issued before the 1st Oct 2012, will they really try to take me to court, or if I complete whatever paperwork I have to and send it off will they drop it at the last minute?

I now live 300 miles away from where the car park in question is and the court post is going there (I haven't seen it yet, it will be forwarded to me tomorrow), and I haven't owned the car since October 2012. I can't believe they are chasing up a £1 parking charge after 3 years when I didn't even know the new payment scheme had started!

I am planning on phoning the Co-op tomorrow to see what they can do their end as I have read they are paying the charge for some people but I am not entirely sure that anybody should be paying the charge.

Any help would be gratefully received!

Fruitcake

Help from the experts will be along in the morning, I'm sure.


Have a read of the sticky thread for NEWBIES about what to do if you are at Court stage, but if you have only received letters from the PPC you are not at that stage yet.


My personal opinion is that this is a bluff. If you have received actual court papers then that is a different kettle of porridge, but it sounds like PPC sabre rattling at the moment.


If it is only CEL who have contacted you then I believe the correct process is to keep ignoring as your ticket was pre POFA 2012 so CEL can only take the driver to court. You do not have to tell them who that is so they will have a hard job issuing court papers to the driver.


If it did ever get to court you can choose to have the hearing at a court near where you live, but even if that were to happen the good people of MSE will guide you through the winning process.

Redx

CEL can and do issue court papers, from BARNET, possibly via Salford MCOL and not Northampton MCOL

so check the paperwork, in case its from DEAL

obviously contact the COOP in case they can sort it out, seeing as they know about it and parking prankster blogged about it 6 months ago so its nothing new

check post #5 of the NEWBIES sticky thread as it has details on there, plus there are dozens of similar CEL court case threads on here this year so use the search words BARNET, COOP , CEL etc to find them and read the advice and any emails or contact addresses

it also has the link to the bargepole thread with specific advice he posted 2 months ago, specifically about CEL and these coop court claims

an MCOL can be taken out for 6 years, but as its before OCT 2012 the RK has the "NOT THE DRIVER" defence if you go into a courtroom, bear in mind CEL rarely turn up in court so go anyway, as the recent parking prankster blog suggests

yes the pcn could be ignored, but that doesnt mean court papers can be ignored, it was thought that nobody would go to court in the 6 years they have to do so, but that all changed after POFA 2012 , even though it doesnt apply in this case. so a court case can arise from any pcn, but you have the right to defend yourself, and always have , nothing has "gone away" until 6 years have passed, never had !

but a lot has changed in 3 years and these PPC`s have become more litigious

it may be DEAL that are sending you these recent letters, but check anyway, plus if its actual court papers, stamped and official, they need dealing with (but not the fakes)

so read the recent advice in here too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5064251

and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5064506

obtain and read the paperwork before jumping to conclusions about this

The_Deep

Do NOT 'phone the Co-op, write to them, keep a copy of your letter, start a file. Never ever conduct business which may result in a court appearance by telephone. Start a paper trail, judges love paper trails.

tigerseye2001

Thank you for your advice so far!!

I have been reading the NEWBIE sticky posts and they are fab.

I think the letter I have received is CEL Letter 3-new version. (I have tried to put a link in but it won't allow me to.
i34 .photobucket.com/albums/d104/peggy_ng/PCN001.jpg

Should I contact Co-op or not? The Deep says not to but Redx and a part of NEWBIE post #5 says I should. I don't know which is best?

I am expecting a call today from the person holding the letter to tell me exactly what it says having not seen it myself yet.

Redx

not true at all

Do NOT 'phone the Co-op, write to them, keep a copy of your letter, start a file. Never ever conduct business which may result in a court appearance by telephone. Start a paper trail, judges love paper trails.

the DEEP says to WRITE TO them, not phone them, because phone calls leave no paper trail

so both he and I say WRITE to the coop, or email them , but dont phone them , on that he and I agree 100%

definitely contact the coop, in writing (too many fools think phone calls sort stuff out, not legal stuff they dont)

read the paperwork before doing anything at all, asap, if not before

you should also apologise to THE DEEP for inferring words that are false

his advice was extremely good and accurate and he is to be commended for his post which was 100% correct, accurate and informative too , which added to my advice as I failed to say what he said, but agreed with it when I read it

Umkomaas

http://s34.photobucket.com/user/peggy_ng/media/PCN002.jpg.html

This is the same court mock up paper also being dished out by DEAL. We don't know what their next move(s) might be after this letter - we think it's just another attempt to panic people into paying so the hassle will stop. What is for certain is that what you've got is not a real court document.

There are quite a few threads currently on the go here (and on PePiPoo), mainly about DEAL, but some about CEL, so my advice is keep an eye on those to see what happens next (if anything) and come back on this thread to update your situation in the event of any further correspondence coming from CEL.

tigerseye2001

Ahh I see. I read that as 'don't phone them and don't write to them', instead of 'don't phone them but do write to them'. Now it makes much more sense! Sorry for any offence caused, I really am appreciative, just clearly lack the ability to read correctly! That doesn't bode well does it!?
Having now seen the letter it is the one that says at the top 'Final reminder before court action' which I think a lot of people are receiving at the moment. So I will continue to see how it plays out for myself and others and will update when something happens.
Thank you again and apologies!

Coupon-mad

CEL never show up anyway if they try a small claim. But you would have to defend it if you got a real one with a Court seal. It would not be sent by CEL, it would come from the court. I assume yours came with a covering letter from CEL or DEAL in which case send a complaint to the Co-op and to the BPA that this PPC are harassing a registered keeper over a case way before the law changed (POFA 2012), so as keeper you cannot be liable. Also CEL are using Crown Copyright paperwork by mocking up a court claim form. Make sure in your complaints you DO NOT imply who may have been driving all that time ago.

tigerseye2001

OK, so as yet I haven't heard anything since I did not reply to the fake court letter from DEAL regarding CEL at CO-OP (it's like a Russian doll!) But I am going to complain to CO-OP and I am hoping I can get some feedback on my draft letter so here goes:


Dear ___,

Official Complaint about Civil Enforcement Ltd, as Agents for the CO-OP

Unfortunately, as I have been continuously hounded by the aforementioned private parking company employed to manage your CO-OP car parks, I am left with no choice but to bring this to your direct attention as you are legally liable for the actions of your agents, and have ultimate authority in determining the cancellation of parking fines as you are the principal to the contract you hold with Civil Enforcement Ltd.

As someone who has shopped with the CO-OP for a number of years, agreeing with your values and principles regarding protecting the environment, helping local communities and tackling global poverty I believe you get it right most of the time. However, your policy and partnership with Civil Enforcement Ltd is intimidating and will drive away genuine local CO-OP customers.

Your ethical values and principles (as seen on your website) include: Equity (‘we carry out our business in a way that is fair’), Openness (‘nobody’s perfect’), Honesty (‘we are honest about what we do and the way we do it’), Caring for others (‘regularly fund charities and local community groups from the profits of our businesses’), Concern for the community (‘work to improve and develop the community, both locally and internationally’) and Social responsibility (‘we encourage people to take responsibility for their own community, and work together to improve it’). I would like to think that as the fair, open, honest, thoughtful, and responsible company you claim to be, you would listen to a genuine customer and dispel the Parking Charge Notice (PCN: _____).

As the registered keeper (at the time of alleged incident – August 2011(!)) I have been subjected to harassment from Civil Enforcement Ltd, as well as their scare tactics consisting of (false) threats of debt collector and of court action (using templates of court forms with clear intention to deceive and obtain monies through misrepresentation!). Not only is this extortion, it goes completely against the grain of customer care.

Having received a Parking Charge Notice prior to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 your agents are well aware that no responsibility rests with the registered keeper, and therefore I cannot be legally liable where no admissions or evidence exist as to who the driver may have been, all those years ago. Despite this fact, Civil Enforcement Ltd continues to pursue me, as the registered keeper. In the event of your parking management company continuing these distressing and threatening actions towards myself, I highly doubt you will enjoy the detrimental publicity in the local press and on social media, especially in the important upcoming Christmas spending period.

The CO-OP should be ashamed of the heavy-handed approach of their agents, and should be doing a great deal more to protect their customers from these threats from this litigious bully. Employing a private parking company who then attempt to sue customers for utilising the provided car park greatly concerns me, and has strongly deterred myself, family and friends from shopping at CO-OP; a supermarket who presents itself as having a better ethical basis than other supermarkets (a value clearly not held by your parking agents).

I am disgusted by Civil Enforcement Ltd’s entire business approach and their unwarranted threats, and am appalled that genuine customers are being harassed by a company that has been exposed for breach of British Parking Association Codes of Practice. Despite their reliance upon impersonating 'PCNs' I am aware that they are no parking Authority, merely one of many from an industry known to make their profits by farming car parks and routinely emptying the pockets of customers of legitimate businesses. As I am sure you can tell, I am infuriated by this harassment.

I would appreciate the removal of this three-year-old penalty notice, by your instruction to CEL to withdraw the claim against the registered keeper.

Thank you for taking the time to deal with this matter,

Yours sincerely,

Coupon-mad

I do like that complaint letter.