SIP Manchester NtK - Advice

FourStrings

Hi guys,

Long time reader, first time poster after some advice. I've read the Newbie threads and looked at the flowchart so have an idea of how to proceed, just wanted to clarify some bits.

I've received an NtK (inside the 56 day limit) from SIP following on for a window ticket for "Insufficient Fee Paid". Car park was heavily advertised as £1/hr and driver was advised to use it by a local council traffic warden. Didn't see the last line at the bottom of the sign that said all vans were a flat £15 so paid his £2 for two hours and went about his business. Came back to a ticket, rang the phone number on it and was sarcastically directed to walk to the sign and read all the way down it! Car park was mostly empty and this took place in the evening, no other spaces were obstructed etc.

Following advice here, I (the keeper) have taken no action while awaiting receipt of the NtK. It contains no detail on why the fee was insufficient, no evidence is attached or implied and the car park location is also given incorrectly (wrong street address, a few blocks away).

Any thoughts on whether the lack of evidence and the fact that they've issued notice for an address that the vehicle has never visited going to be grounds enough for the IAS appeal (no POPLA, they're with the other bunch now!).

Any advice gratefully received!

Thanks

Dee140157

Well it certainly sounds like a non complaint NTK is good grounds for winning at second stage as we all know you will lose at first appeal.

Do you have pictures of signage, because they do not make the conditions clear and signage is another prominent issue for IAS.

Could you post a redacted version of the NTK both sides on here so we can see what it looks like and what words are used.

Have you compared it point by point with section 8 of pofa12?

You do have only 21 days for each stage of appeal, but we can and do beat IPC PPCs.

I don't know much about SIP though, so it may be worth spending a little re doing a forum search on this particular company to see what others say about it.

To host pictures you need to upload eg to tinypic.com and then post the link on here with Hxxp instead of http.

Dee140157

It wasn't the same car park as this thread was it? This looks like a Manchester SIP. Dreadful signs. (The OP went with PTAS to sort his appeal out)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5048382

FourStrings

Cheers for the help.

It's the very same one! By all accounts, the driver only read as far as "2 hours - £2" on the sign, chucked the coins in the machine and got on his way. If he'd been aware of the ridiculous charge for vans he'd have parked elsewhere. Apparently when he questioned it on the phone call to SIP he was told it was introduced to intentionally discourage van drivers as they were filling up the car park during the day. The ticket in question was issued for parking between 6pm and 8pm in a near-empty car park so there's no loss of earnings argument to be made as far as I can see. Is there any precedent for giving an incorrect location on the NtK invalidating it?

FourStrings

And I'll post the NtK as soon as poss, just juggling the kids to bed!

Dee140157

The secret to winning IAS appeals is to pick flaws with every part of the NTK. It won't invalidate it, but it could help in the proof to show it is non compliant.

In the first instance you need to put in an appeal to SIP. Now this can be based on the one in post 1 of the newbie thread, as the signs do not make any reference to a contractual charge. This means that the no GPEOL argument can be Used.

The difference between a POPLA appeal and a IAS appeal is that at POPLA y can raise problems and it is up to The PPC to disprove. However for IAS they put the onus on you to prove your points. So more like a formal defence.

Wait until hopefully Coupon-Mad or Guys Dad comment, but my gut is to won't in the appeal straight as per post 1 and start putting your evidence together for IAS.

As I said a copy of the NTK would be useful! (redacted of course).

eddy1

Hi fourstrings


re NTK


there appears to be an issue with who is the creditor on the NTK, is it SIP Parking limited, SIPcar parks.com, SIP, pofa as I have been advised states that the creditor "must" be identified, with this NTK, if it is the same as the one we received, states that you can pay online to sipcarparks.com, but that the postal order is made out to SIP parking limited, this in my opinion, and others that have advised me does not identify the creditor


take a look at yours and compare to POFA 8, 2(h) I am sure it will be the same
another point to add to appeal I believe


good luck


eddy

Coupon-mad

Eddy I am glad to see you've been reading the old SIP threads from last year and found some NTK errors and name anomalies about this bunch! They call themselves 'Simple Intelligent Parking' sometimes and 'Stop Illegal Parking' in other places (compare all notices/signs/documents/letters and website and you start to wonder which is the real name of the firm and are they actually a limited company or two separate firms?). All of which helps for any court defence or IAS appeal!

I've received an NtK (inside the 56 day limit) from SIP

What a surprise - it may be in time but the wording won't be compliant - so the keeper wins then! As long as the IAS appeal is well worded and the NTK (both sides) & signage pics are attached as evidence BEFORE you click 'submit'. Have a look at IAS appeals people have won with recently; Dee140157 started a thread called 'IAS decisions' which is collated by Crabman near the top of the forum in the general parking stickies. And I added a few IAS wins to a link in the Newbies sticky thread post #3, near the 'how to win at POPLA' link (some may be the same as Dee's but make sure you read the recent wins, e.g. a thread by Popcorn141, among others).

For now you can just send the short appeal in post #1 of the Newbies thread. Whatever you do, don't add a single thing that implies who was driving/parked!

The secret to winning IAS appeals is to pick flaws with every part of the NTK. It won't invalidate it, but it could help in the proof to show it is non compliant.

Yep - pick holes in the NTK and the signage wording when it comes to IAS stage and also don't miss the 21 day appeals deadlines.

eddy1

all of their names on the IPC site


Sip Parking Ltd (Trading as: ANPReye, Morgan Knightley & Co, SIP Car Parks, Simple Intelligent Parking, Stops Illegal Parking)
how many more acronyms can you get out of the letters SIP, I could think of a few!!

eddy