Appeal to go from WRAG to support .. Advice

nannytone_2

i cant see anywhere in your original post that it says they found your mum 'fit for work'
being placed in the WRAG doesnt mean they have found you fit for work.
if fit for work you dont get ESA at all.

getting in the support group is a different matter.
its a box ticking exercise rather than an indicator of how unwell/disabled the claimant is

Cookiee

I didn't say that they found her fit for work. They just stated that they were not going to move her into the support group from the wrag group.


At her assessment they incorrectly informed her that she would automatically be put into the support group but in Feb, after enquiring, found out she was in the wrag group instead.


That the appeal they very clearly stated my mum should never have been put into the wrag group and should have been in the support group. I know its a box ticking exercise but it makes me so angry that genuine people like my mum are make to jump though impossible hoops by people who are supposed to help people who need it.

nannytone_2

We have had 2 revised checks and both still said my mum was fit to work (even though she cant walk more than 25m

your own words.
this is misleading to someone trying to claim ESA of any grouping as it infers that being placed in the WRAG means you have been found fit for work

poppy12345

nannytone wrote: »

We have had 2 revised checks and both still said my mum was fit to work (even though she cant walk more than 25m

your own words.
this is misleading to someone trying to claim ESA of any grouping as it infers that being placed in the WRAG means you have been found fit for work

I don't think it really matters now imo because the person's mum has already been placed in the support group with review in 2 years.

nannytone_2

it matters because there are always people new to the site/benefit system that are looking for guidance/support.
if they read that being put in the WRAG means they are 'fit for work' then they are being misinformed

Cookiee

nannytone wrote: »

We have had 2 revised checks and both still said my mum was fit to work (even though she cant walk more than 25m

your own words.
this is misleading to someone trying to claim ESA of any grouping as it infers that being placed in the WRAG means you have been found fit for work

Nannytone I apologise as I did not think that was the actual wording I used. What I meant was that the DWP was requesting my mum attend interviews, work groups and asking her to send a cv to them whilst on the wrag. They were insinuating that my mum could attend these as they said that people in the wrag are encouraged to aim towards going back to work. My mum is in no fit state to take any sort of work.


I would not want anyone to infer that being in the wrag group means you will be fit for work, however the wrag group is there to support people get better and eventually guide them back to work.


To anyone who is looking for information, make sure you get all the correct descriptors of both groups, as I believe this is what helped my mum be put into the correct group.

rogerblack

Cookiee wrote: »

however the wrag group is there to support people get better and eventually guide them back to work.

No, it is not.
This is the cartoon description for 5-year-olds.

The work-related group is for someone who passes the various legislative tests to get ESA-WRAG.
That is all.
There may be additional requirements over the support group - but there is no expectation that the person will ever get better - or any way out of the work-related group on the grounds that you can't.

Cookiee

Rogerblack, that might be your opinion. However the WRAG is:
Work-related activity group
What is the employment and support allowance work-related activity group?

The ESA work-related activity group is for claimants who the DWP consider will be capable of work at some time in the future and who are capable of taking steps towards moving into work (work-related activities) immediately.


I stand by what I say. My husband had a back injury and was put into the wrag group. He received help with his cv, attended a computer course and a company called A4E assigned a councillor to help him emotionally as well as help arrange interviews once his treatment was finished.


I totally agree that there are a lot of people put into the wrong group, especially my mum, but if people don't use the resources available to get back to work then what's the point of having them there in the first place.

rogerblack

Cookiee wrote: »

Rogerblack, that might be your opinion. However the WRAG is:
Work-related activity group
What is the employment and support allowance work-related activity group?

The ESA work-related activity group is for claimants who the DWP consider will be capable of work at some time in the future and who are capable of taking steps towards moving into work (work-related activities) immediately.


I stand by what I say. My husband had a back injury and was put into the wrag group. He received help with his cv, attended a computer course and a company called A4E assigned a councillor to help him emotionally as well as help arrange interviews once his treatment was finished.


I totally agree that there are a lot of people put into the wrong group, especially my mum, but if people don't use the resources available to get back to work then what's the point of having them there in the first place.

The problem is it is factually incorrect, and a misleading malicious lie. that has been used to make it appear reasonable that people in the work-relate group can't claim contributions based ESA for more than a year. Or that young severely disabled people will always be a drain on any relationship they are in.

Sure - it is true of some people.
Breaking this down some.

'who the DWP consider will be capable of work at some time in the future and who are capable of taking steps towards moving into work (work-related activities) immediately.'

'capable of work at some time in the future'.

This is not one of the reasons you are put in the work-related group.
You get ESA-WRAG by scoring 15 points on the various descriptors, or being at risk if you are found to be fit for work.(*)

There is absolutely no requirement that you will ever be fit for work.
People with lifelong conditions who score the correct amount of points, but do not meet a support group descriptor will _NOT_ be put in the support group - even if it accepted that their condition is lifelong. (Sure - they will be given a 'prognosis' for reassessment of 3 years - so this might seem like it's a time when they are expected to be ready for work. It's not.)
'taking steps towards moving into work (work-related activities) immediately'

Again - this is incorrect.

Work related activity is allowed to be required of claimants in the WRAG.
However, this must be reasonable and actually in principle in aid to them in getting work.
The DWP being unable to reasonably suggest anything that might even in principle help does not make you eligible for the support group.
You having a health condition that makes working impossible again is not eligibility for the support group.

My common example is someone who due to a sports injury cannot place either hand into a upper shirt pocket, but can do every other task gets placed into the support group.

A claimant who uses a wheelchair, can't walk and can slowly wheel himself over 200m. He can only work for 90 minutes at a time before becoming utterly exhausted. He has difficulty conveying or understanding more than simple messages from strangers. Once every couple of months has a sudden accident where he loses control of his bowels. Can barely operate a washing machine. Several hours a day he can't cope with trying to talk to new people.

Is fit for work.

At no point in the ESA test is 'claimant is unfit for any reasonable hope of work' a direct route to ESA.

(There are other less common reasons, for example certain infectious diseases)
'

Cookiee

I agree with the last part of your statement, especially as this is what was the case for my mum.


It is not factually incorrect. The information I got was not actually from the DWP but from a dedicated site that supports people in either group and to help them if they need to appeal their "group placement".


There are MAJOR flaws in the system. I absolutely agree. If a claimant is put into the incorrect group, that is the whole point of the appeal system. BUT a small (and I mean a tiny bit) of this system has al least eliminate some claimants who have nothing wrong with them.
Example: I know of someone who stated that they had to use a walking stick and got a bit tired during the day. I know this person suffered from the SAD condition but behind closed doors I have seen them play the Kinect, wii and also go on bike rides. They tried to claim ESA and they were found that they should go into the wrag group.


I don't believe that someone should be entitled to an unlimited time of benefit. I think this is not encouraging to people to try and get better. Work should not be defined by 9-5. HOWEVER genuine people who are ill are suffering from those who take the schmicheal and abuse the system.