Esa = jsa?

[Deleted User]

As I have mentioned in previous threads, I am in the ESA WRAG and I also get DLA mobility and daily living components.

Had appointment at the job centre 2 weeks ago (since winning my medical and being placed in the WRAG) and the guy asked me about my illnesses and how I spend my days. At the interview he said (his words) "well good news is, you wont be coming back here again" "You will NOT be made to look for work and you will have your next medical in 1 years time"

He then said "Because your in the WRAG, I have forwarded your details onto a group called Triago" I asked him how often I would see them and he said that it might just be a one off appointment or they may need to see me now an again.

Got a phone call last week and I spoke to the girl from Triago head office. She told me that I will be with them for 2 years and that they will just need to see me now and again to see how I am getting on. I was told that even if I get put on JSA, I must still stay with them for the 2 year time.

So, yesterday I had my first appointment and I am REALLY confused now! Quite a bit of contradictions as well.

The first thing my advisor said to me was "Can I confirm that you are actively seeking employment" Now, I just looked at her because, I thought to myself, if I am on ESA and I was told that, I do NOT have to look for work and will not have another medical for 1 year, why is she asking me if I am looking for a job?

She quickly moved onto different subjects before I could even reply anyway (the whole interview was very rushed through and it looked as if she could not even be bothered asking me questions and getting me to fill in forms.

She then told me that, I need to attend Triago every 2 weeks and that I would be searching for jobs when I am there. Failure to do so will see me losing my ESA. She gave me a letter telling me my next appointment is on 29th september and that I MUST undertake a 1 hour job search activity in my next appointment

CONFUSED!! If guy at job centre told me that I do NOT have to job search and next medical is not for 1 year, why am I being told by Triago that I need to go see them every 2 weeks AND apply for jobs? (it also contradicts what the girl from head office told me)

So, ive came to the conclusion that, ESA = JSA

1. JSA sign on every 2 weeks
ESA attend every 2 weeks

2. JSA must apply for work
ESA must apply for work

specialboy

Is there any reason that you don't want help finding work?

Indie_Kid

You're not required to look for work whilst on ESA.

pmlindyloo

From Benefits and Work website:

The ESA work-related activity group is for claimants who the DWP consider will be capable of work at some time in the future and who are capable of taking steps towards moving into work (work-related activities) immediately.

So, really, both advisers were incorrect!

I am sure it will all work out in the end. Just go with the flow.

nannytone_2

specialboy wrote: »

Is there any reason that you don't want help finding work?

maybe because they have passed a medical that states they are currently UNFIT FOR WORK??

OP... it is quite common for work programme providers to not know the difference between JSA and ESA and so not understand the different requirements.
they can require you to attend every 2 weeks but VANNOT make you seek employment or apply for hobs.
they can however, require you to take part in courses, voluntary work or work experience.
if any of these activities will make your condition worse, you can refuse ( but refuse nicely rather than just saying 'no i wont' and explain the reasons why you can't)

rogerblack

pmlindyloo wrote: »

From Benefits and Work website:

The ESA work-related activity group is for claimants who the DWP consider will be capable of work at some time in the future and who are capable of taking steps towards moving into work (work-related activities) immediately.

So, really, both advisers were incorrect!

As, indeed are you.

ESA is not the above.
This is the cartoon definition offered up as an explanation of policy.

ESA is (for the claimant) for those who either gain 15 points by meeting one or more descriptors and/or meet one of the support group criteria.
In addition, the terminally ill, those with various contagious diseases specified in legislation and those pregnant and in the very last weeks.
Plus, those whos health would be put severely in danger if they were found to be either fit for work, or fit for work-related activity.

Those in the work-related group can be required to do many things - however there are a couple of absolute bars.
They cannot be made to:
Apply for work.
Do work.(*)
Undergo medical treatment (*).

You can be made to do everything else - for example requiring you do do all of the normal job-seeking up until the point of actual application for work.

You need to contact, in writing the work program provider, and complain that the advisor does not understand ESA and JSA are seperate benefits, and that they are not allowed to require you to apply for work.

Send a copy of this letter to the DWP.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1349/regulation/3#text%3D%22work%20related%20activity%22

(b)may not require the person to—

(i)apply for a job or undertake work, whether as an employee or otherwise; or

(ii)undergo medical treatment.

* Work related activity is not work.
They can require you to do various tasks - including turning up somewhere and doing something for x hours a day that the average man in the street would call work. This is not normal paid employment. You cannot be required to take normal paid employment.
* Very limited trials in a small area are currently, or shortly going to be underway to offer medical help in some cases - exactly what the rules and practice around this will be.

rogerblack

nannytone wrote: »

, you can refuse ( but refuse nicely rather than just saying 'no i wont' and explain the reasons why you can't)

You cannot refuse.
You can request that they reconsider. If they do not reconsider, you have no choice other than to either do it, or not do it, be sanctioned, and appeal.
There is no procedure for appealing the decision before it has resulted in a sanction.

While most who appeal such a sanction get it overturned - decisions in other aspects of ESA are taking many weeks to happen - I don't know if these would be more rapid.
If not, taking a stand that it would make you worse can result in you losing money for many weeks. The sanction does not end until either it's overturned, or until you comply (with possibly a period after that).

This is why it's important to at a very early stage in the process to correct any errors - advisers thinking ESA and JSA are the same thing, for example, rather than to let it ride until there is a problem.

nannytone_2

thats what i meant

if you refuse you need a good reason with evidence to back it up

rogerblack

nannytone wrote: »

thats what i meant

if you refuse you need a good reason with evidence to back it up

If they do not agree with you, this will help you win if you request a mandatory reconsideration, or go on to appeal the sanction.
It will not help to remove the sanction before that.

Sorry if I'm being nit-picky - but advice to refuse politely a sanction can easily result in benefit being cut off for many weeks with the current delays in the system.

There is no good way round this.
Getting carted off in an ambulance from the work-related-activity would of course be 'good cause' for leaving it

nannytone_2

im order for them to reconsider, surely you have to say that you cant do it first?
it is always better to say things nicely to those that have power over our finances, than to start an argument about it.
we are saying similiar things using different language

rogerblack

nannytone wrote: »

im order for them to reconsider, surely you have to say that you cant do it first?
it is always better to say things nicely to those that have power over our finances, than to start an argument about it.
we are saying similiar things using different language

Subtly different, but important, I feel.

if any of these activities will make your condition worse, you can refuse ( but refuse nicely rather than just saying 'no i wont' and explain the reasons why you can't)

You can say you can't do it.
You can give your reasons - however you can't refuse to do the task as a right, with no consequences.

Simply refusing may cause you to be sanctioned.
The only way not to be put forward to be sanctioned is for them to agree that it's not appropriate, or for you to do the activity.

This is entirely between you and the work provider or JCP adviser - nobody else is involved at this stage.