Japanese Knotweed

cyclonebri1

matty_hunt wrote: »

Ive dealt with knotweed before. If I recall, to dig it up you must dig four foot deep, remove everything, the soil and all, and then get it all disposed of under controlled conditions. Not really practical. I used to cut it to about five inches, cant remember what time of year, sorry, then inject the last chamber with neat glyphosate. This is not the ready to use stuff you get in the shops but the concentrated trade stuff. Then burn the cuttings. Word of warning...as the 'canes' are chambered, they can explode quite spectacularly spitting hot sap when burning. Then I would hit the regrowth every month with Roundup BioActive. Takes about three years but got it in the end and never contaminated anywhere by burning it.

I'm afraid it's more than that, the official literature I read stated it can go down to 13mtrs, that's why it's such a big problem.

I understand as above glyphosate will kill it but it needs many applications and needs to be high strength. Forget any garden centre stuff.

The product needed is Rosate 36, the most concentrated glyphosate available. About £14/ltr from ebay.

snowcat75

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

I understand as above glyphosate will kill it but it needs many applications and needs to be high strength. Forget any garden centre stuff.

The product needed is Rosate 36, the most concentrated glyphosate available. About £14/ltr from ebay.

There are actualy formulations of glyphosate upto 840g/l however 420 g/l is fairly common in the UK, but the 360g/l you mention would be just fine.

generally these formulations and the Rosate you mention or Sammari (typicaly costing sub £2 a ltr) as monsanto sell it into the Ag trade also contain wetting agents witch improve the activity, amine being one, in hard water areas its also best to put a softening agent know as non inonic wetters also improve performance.

The reason DIY glyphostes are limited to low G/L sometime sub 100, is because to become licensed for home use they have to work on the assumption that the average householder will use them like an idiot.

Professional products under law require a two part course to use PA1 and 2, part two is specific to the type of machine used to apply, from a £50 knapsack to £200k self propelled machines.

It is important to apply any product in the correct conditions, always onto a growing plant, Leaves need to be drying, and no rain for 6hrs after application. Several applications may be needed. If its dry waxy plants will become hard so its best to wait for a decent rainfall then apply a couple of days latter.


what I cant understand is the injecting part as the very best way to get chemicals into a plant is to hit the leaves known as the target, and with herbicides nearly always with a 180 degree flat fan nozzle, medium to fine spray, A decent knapsack can achieve this a stupid garden pump sprayer cannot.

Davesnave

snowcat75 wrote: »

Professional products under law require a two part course to use PA1 and 2, part two is specific to the type of machine used to apply, from a £50 knapsack to £200k self propelled machines.

....what I cant understand is the injecting part .

It isn't necessary under current law for the owners of land to use these professional products on their own property, though I understand that's due to change in 2015.

Now I wonder whether old codgers like me will pay £400 to go on a course, or just stockpile? :think: Tough one!

As to injecting being most effective; like many plants which die down over winter, JK draws all the nutrients in the soon-to-be-dead stems back into its underground rhizomes rather than wasting them....and the glyphosate is drawn down too.

The trouble is, humans are impatient and they like to see results, quickly.

cyclonebri1

snowcat75 wrote: »

There are actualy formulations of glyphosate upto 840g/l however 420 g/l is fairly common in the UK, but the 360g/l you mention would be just fine.

generally these formulations and the Rosate you mention or Sammari (typicaly costing sub £2 a ltr) as monsanto sell it into the Ag trade also contain wetting agents witch improve the activity, amine being one, in hard water areas its also best to put a softening agent know as non inonic wetters also improve performance.

The reason DIY glyphostes are limited to low G/L sometime sub 100, is because to become licensed for home use they have to work on the assumption that the average householder will use them like an idiot.

Professional products under law require a two part course to use PA1 and 2, part two is specific to the type of machine used to apply, from a £50 knapsack to £200k self propelled machines.

It is important to apply any product in the correct conditions, always onto a growing plant, Leaves need to be drying, and no rain for 6hrs after application. Several applications may be needed. If its dry waxy plants will become hard so its best to wait for a decent rainfall then apply a couple of days latter.


what I cant understand is the injecting part as the very best way to get chemicals into a plant is to hit the leaves known as the target, and with herbicides nearly always with a 180 degree flat fan nozzle, medium to fine spray, A decent knapsack can achieve this a stupid garden pump sprayer cannot.

Thanks for that, I just knew that 360 was the max concentration generally available to joe public. At that strength it is pretty awful stuff. I use it on problem weeds as a neat gel and wearing rubber gloves smear it on as much foliage as possible.
However you have around 1 minute to do the job and bin the gloves, surgical gloves are eaten through in around 2 mins:eek::eek:

I think the reason most folks say inject is that there are specific instructions to that effect in the instructions for such as Rosate 36, I have several tree trunks (live) treated with the stuff. I only did this this year so will not see if regrowth is stopped until next year.

How about a belt and braces approach as I've done with the persistant shoots and roots of bamboo? I treat the fresh shoots and slice into a few exposed roots painting the stuff into the wounds, that works.
But again no real experience with JK, however we did have some grow in 1 isolated area around our newly built factory unit, I'd given the annual maintenance contract to Green Thumb at the time, they sorted it, took 2 years but no idea what chemicals were used.

snowcat75

Davesnave wrote: »

It isn't necessary under current law for the owners of land to use these professional products on their own property, though I understand that's due to change in 2015.

Now I wonder whether old codgers like me will pay £400 to go on a course, or just stockpile? :think: Tough one! .

Grandfather rights have not yet gone and yes 2015 is the diffentive date, although actualy 2011 was the first palimony, however on label use clearly state for professional Horticultural and Agricultural use only (in other words a holding no.), and although you may argue in actual fact Home use is classed and licensed differently.

Stockpiling is not a great idea as firstly I take it its not stored properly and bundled, secondly chemicals will crystallize over time, and thirdly the MAPP no will go out of date, and although the active may be licensed but the product will not.

I have a yearly audit on chemicals within store, If there not within license you can and will get landed with a large disposal fee.

I can see the theory on injection, but as Glyphostae is a systemic herbicide, foliur application through the leaves will be as effective, as long as the plant is actively growing.

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Thanks for that, I just knew that 360 was the max concentration generally available to joe public. At that strength it is pretty awful stuff. I use it on problem weeds as a neat gel and wearing rubber gloves smear it on as much foliage as possible.
However you have around 1 minute to do the job and bin the gloves, surgical gloves are eaten through in around 2 mins:eek::eek:

I think the reason most folks say inject is that there are specific instructions to that effect in the instructions for such as Rosate 36, I have several tree trunks (live) treated with the stuff. I only did this this year so will not see if regrowth is stopped until next year.

How about a belt and braces approach as I've done with the persistant shoots and roots of bamboo? I treat the fresh shoots and slice into a few exposed roots painting the stuff into the wounds, that works.
But again no real experience with JK, however we did have some grow in 1 isolated area around our newly built factory unit, I'd given the annual maintenance contract to Green Thumb at the time, they sorted it, took 2 years but no idea what chemicals were used.

TBH Glyphosate is pretty harmless to humans the active stops cell division within the plant, the reason why gloves rot is due to the wetting agents which are oil based, Nitrel gloves are the standard, when im repairing machines I use the boxed blue dispoals when filling I use the more robust multi use, although these have a timeline from first use.

chookmom

We bought our house knowing it had knotweed and consequently got it at a good price
The knotweed is being treated by specialist company and that treatment is overseen by a specialist company. They are experts and advise nationally on the control and treatment. This is being paid for by the vendors.
I am assured that the most efficient treatment is allowing the knotweed to grow until it is flowering (August time) and then spraying with glyphosate, I assume they use the higher concentrate.
The ground should not be disturbed in any way within 3 meters and no digging down within 7 meters.
The stem injection is more practical for large areas (like with the NT) but less efficient as it does not draw it down to the rhizomes in the same way.
Our Knotweed was treated like this and we had only a tiny bit of regrowth in the second year and nothing this year.
It is not an offence to have the knotweed on your land but it is an offence to spread it which is what is happening here. I understood the expert who visited last year to say that legislation was changing and that it would no longer be possible for councils to wash their hands of 'unowned' knotweed.
He told me that knotweed should be respected but not feared

JemF

Knot weed is a severe problem. Currently is spreading along a storm drain between our neighbours and a council run establishment. The only positive is bees love it.

Some has popped up in our neighbours backyard and currently while empty am treating it with white vinegar which is only keeping it in check.

My partner has phoned up the local authorities who own the area and threatening them with legal action has got some movement but by the time they decide to act on which contractor should deal with it is anybody's guess!

Davesnave

snowcat75 wrote: »

.

Stockpiling is not a great idea as firstly I take it its not stored properly and bundled, secondly chemicals will crystallize over time, and thirdly the MAPP no will go out of date, and although the active may be licensed but the product will not.

I have a yearly audit on chemicals within store, If there not within license you can and will get landed with a large disposal fee.

Rather a lot of assumptions there!:rotfl: Why are any chemicals I have, 'not stored properly?' Several years ago, before I retired, I undertook a 10 day programme at the taxpayer's expense to learn about chemicals and their use/storage in my workplace.

I presume you mean 'bunded' not 'bundled'

My chemicals are in a galvanised bin inside a brick building with a DPC so unless there's a major fire, they'll hardly constitute a hazard to the environment. I think my oil tank, with 1200 litres in it, might be a greater threat, though no one is suggesting I get rid of that!

Anyway, perhaps you misunderstand. As a smallholder, making no money from my land, but keen to keep it maintained and productive, I have other things to do with my limited finances.The EU mandarins are not interested in the likes of me, or the inconvenience they might cause me.

I will therefore do what I feel appropriate to protect my interests, and I suggest others in a similar position take heed and do likewise.

cyclonebri1

JemF wrote: »

Knot weed is a severe problem. Currently is spreading along a storm drain between our neighbours and a council run establishment. The only positive is bees love it.

Some has popped up in our neighbours backyard and currently while empty am treating it with white vinegar which is only keeping it in check.

My partner has phoned up the local authorities who own the area and threatening them with legal action has got some movement but by the time they decide to act on which contractor should deal with it is anybody's guess!

Then you need to do more, alert all your neighbours and get your heads together to take a more determined approach to the council.
As you say it is a severe problem, but mainly in devaluing your property when you want to sell it. I'd call it more of a liability than a problem.

JemF

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Then you need to do more, alert all your neighbours and get your heads together to take a more determined approach to the council.
As you say it is a severe problem, but mainly in devaluing your property when you want to sell it. I'd call it more of a liability than a problem.

Our neighbours are aware, today legal help has been sort in making our local authority responsible from whose land is smothered with Japanese knot weed. What is on our neighbours empty property grounds I have so far managed to keep in check its growth.