P45, P60 and general tax help

ashmit

Bit of a long shot, but y'all have got to be more use than the Tax Office!

My husband finished his old job in mid March. He had a week unemployed and started his new job at the end of March. He still hasn't received his P45 from his old employer and doesn't really expect to - even though his old employer was claiming £75/week to employ him because he'd been unemployed for aeons before that, he still doesn't think that the fact he was working had been mentioned to the tax office.

1) how can he chase his P45? I think he will have overpaid tax as he was only working for 6 months of the last tax year but he can't chase without a P45.

2) who is responsible for giving him a P60? The tax office has told him different things at different times. If it makes any difference, he wasn't paid by the new employer til after the new tax year, but some of that pay obviously covered end March-5 April.

3) Is it worth it? It was his old boss that got him the new job and while we don't think there is any friendship between them, he doesn't want to make too much of a fuss as he was unemployed for a long time between these jobs and although he's doing well he is rather underqualified for what he's doing at the mo and is worried that causing a fuss will make his boss look more unfavourably at confirming his contract (due in the next week or two). Now, his boss has offered to chase the old boss for the paperwork, so I really doubt this would be a problem, but I can understand why he's worried. But I still say - it's money owed to him and he should chase it so he can claim.

Fingers crossed that one of you can help!

isasmurf

1) how can he chase his P45?  I think he will have overpaid tax as he was only working for 6 months of the last tax year but he can't chase without a P45.

I think it's a legal obligation for his old employer to give him a P45. Has he chased it through his old employer? If he hasn't then try that first, but I can't see any other way then contacting the tax office again. Because of the way PAYE works I don't think he will have overpaid that much unless he was on an emergency tax code.

2) who is responsible for giving him a P60?  The tax office has told him different things at different times.  If it makes any difference, he wasn't paid by the new employer til after the new tax year, but some of that pay obviously covered end March-5 April.

You will only receive a P60 if you were employed on the 5th April. Wherever you were employed on that date should provide you with a P60.

3) Is it worth it?  

Paying the correct amount of tax is always worth it! I would have thought that if he didn't provide his new employer with a P45 then he might be on the wrong tax code, or on an emergency tax code. As I said before try chasing it yourself first.

ashmit

Thanks for the reply, saver smurf

He has chased his old employer, but he just keeps saying 'oh yes I'll send it out at some point' and not doing. I'm inclined to believe that he's right and that he hadn't registered anywhere that hubby was employed with him so he hasn't been paying his taxes and NI. This, to my mind, is despicable, because my husband was unemployed for about 4 years I think before that, and his NI contributions are going to be low enough without someone doing this to him.

I do actually think that he will be due a sizeable chunk of tax back because I don't think he quite earned enough to put him over the tax threshold, according to my calculations and the figures here. And his old boss didn't have an automatic payroll (there were only three employees) just gave him what seemed to be random amounts of money - in cash for 5 of the 6 months he worked there because hubby only just opened a bank account recently. For the last month he got a cheque.

I did think that it was whoever employed you on 5th April that gave you a P60 but the bloody tax office told me different the first time I called. I wish they would inform their staff properly!

If we don't get any joy from chasing it via his old employer do you think the CAB could help?

Fran

The CAB website - Adviceguide(click. here) has the following to say:-

"Leaving a job

If you leave your job - either voluntarily, through dismissal, redundancy or because you retire, the employer should give you a Form P45. The P45 gives details of your employer's tax office, your employer’s tax reference number, your tax code and the total amount of pay and tax deducted during the current tax year. If tax has been deducted on the emergency code, the P45 will have an X in the box marked week 1 or month 1 and there will not be any details of pay or tax. You should keep the P45 in case you start work again.

If your employer fails to give you a P45 after being asked to do so, you should contact your tax office as they may encourage your employer to issue a P45. If your employer cannot be persuaded, a new employer will ask you to complete a P46 form which allows your new employer to deduct tax on an emergency code until the right amount of tax to be deducted is worked out.

If you claim jobseeker’s allowance, you will have to give the P45 to the Employment Service jobcentre. If you start work again before the end of the tax year, the jobcentre will give you a P45U which include details of the taxable benefit you have received as well as the normal P45 details.

If you leave at the very end of the tax year you should be given a P60 and a P45."

If your husband thinks it "still hasn't been mentioned to the tax office", this could have repercussions for him later with other employment, Inland Revenue, his pension and if he needs to claim benefits in the future. Yes you could ask the CAB to help.

ashmit

If your husband thinks it "still hasn't been mentioned to the tax office", this could have repercussions for him later with other employment, Inland Revenue, his pension and if he needs to claim benefits in the future. Yes you could ask the CAB to help.

Thanks Fran, you're a genius - I wanted to get him to chase it but he's inclined just to write it off to experience. I'd never thought of it like that - I'm too gung ho on the getting his money back! Seems obvious now but hey.

I'll get him to contact his old employer once more just to give him one last chance but also call the tax office too in case that gives him a push, but if neither of those work we'll be going to the CAB (I'll be going with him to make sure he pushes it!!)

Paul_Varjak

It sounds to me that your husband's old boss may be on the fiddle!

He got £75 for employing someone previously unemployed. Was this from the Department of Work and Pesnions? If so, then there is something wrong with the system if the DWP do not inform the Inland Revenue of your husband's employment whilst paying £75 to your husband's ex-employer.

There are too many businesses exploiting government schemes and to compound that by apparently not paying tax and NI contributions is despicable.

Did your husband get any payslips showing any deductions (including Tax)?

Did your husband get a P45 from the jobcentre when he ceased claiming benefits when the old job started in around September?

Was your husband's agreement that he would only work for six months with the old employer? Or is this just the maximum time that a £75/week rebate is payable for one individual?

Did your husband's old employer take on someone else in a similar rold to your husband's (including getting £75/week rebate) when your husband left the job?

And is your husband's new employer also getting a £75/week rebate? Maybe there is some connection between the two employers to perpetuate any fiddle? The fact there was a gap of one week in March before your husband got a new job may also be indicative of some fiddle between the two employers.

I would also contact the Pension Service in Newcastle to get a Pension forecast for your husband. This will show up any shortages in your husband's contribution record and what efffect this could have on his pension. It is possbible to make up shortfall in NI contributions for up to six years I believe.

I would also speak to whoever paid the £75/week  rebate to your husband and explain what has happened! This may help your husband get any tax rebate due and may help to uncover any fraud if it exists.

I have been in a similar position to your husband (more than once) and so I know that these sort of fiddles are quite common!

ashmit

It sounds to me that your husband's old boss may be on the fiddle!

yeah, that's what I thought....

He got £75 for employing someone previously unemployed. Was this from the Department of Work and Pesnions? If so, then there is something wrong with the system if the DWP do not inform the Inland Revenue of your husband's employment whilst paying £75 to your husband's ex-employer.

I think it was from the DWP, yes. And it does seem crazy to me that this isn't automatic.

There are too many businesses exploiting government schemes and to compound that by apparently not paying tax and NI contributions is despicable.

absolutely.

Did your husband get any payslips showing any deductions (including Tax)?

not a single payslip. just random amounts of cash, and with the last payment, a word document detailing how much had been paid to him, how much tax and NI had supposedly been paid, and using that to justify why his last month's pay was smaller than all the rest. It seemed unlikely at the time, but I'm trusting so I kinda just took the old boss at his word.

Did your husband get a P45 from the jobcentre when he ceased claiming benefits when the old job started in around September?

yes, which i'm 99% certain he passed on to old boss. what he actually did with it is anyone's guess. and for all i keep telling hubby that he needs to keep these things, i don't know what he did with his copy. aaaargh!

Was your husband's agreement that he would only work for six months with the old employer? Or is this just the maximum time that a £75/week rebate is payable for one individual?

his initial contract was for 6 months. during this time, there was never any suggestion that his contract wouldn't be renewed. one week before his contract was due to expire, old boss told him that the business wasn't making enough money to continue to pay him and he'd have to let him go. coincidentally, yes, the £75/week is only payable for 6 months.

Did your husband's old employer take on someone else in a similar rold to your husband's (including getting £75/week rebate) when your husband left the job?

no - hubby is still in touch with the one person remaining that works for this bloke and he hasn't been replaced - the work isn't really getting done properly any more. old boss seems to have got bored with this business and is looking for the next big money making thing.

And is your husband's new employer also getting a £75/week rebate? Maybe there is some connection between the two employers to perpetuate any fiddle? The fact there was a gap of one week in March before your husband got a new job may also be indicative of some fiddle between the two employers.

no, he's not getting the money, as hubby no longer counts on New Deal. the week's break was because we were getting married and had already booked a week off

I would also contact the Pension Service in Newcastle to get a Pension forecast for your husband. This will show up any shortages in your husband's contribution record and what efffect this could have on his pension. It is possbible to make up shortfall in NI contributions for up to six years I believe.

thanks for that - will look into it.

I would also speak to whoever paid the £75/week rebate to your husband and explain what has happened! This may help your husband get any tax rebate due and may help to uncover any fraud if it exists.

oooh, i never thought of that. (i'm sure it's a case of when you're in the middle of something it's much more difficult to spot the wood for the trees!)

I have been in a similar position to your husband (more than once) and so I know that these sort of fiddles are quite common!

thank you so, so much for your (very comprehensive!) post. it's nice to know that it's not just him that's had to deal with something like this. will print off a copy of all this and deal with it bit by bit.

now, i just have to persuade him this really is worth pursuing.... wish me luck on that count!

Paul_Varjak

Congratulations on your marriage in March!

I am not a tax expert, but I know that you used to be able to get a married person's tax allowances for the whole tax year even if you married in the last month/week/day of the tax year.

Even if that is no longer the case, you could use this as an excuse to contact your husband's former boss, telling him you need the P45 before you can get more tax allowance from the Inland Revenue because you got married during the tax year your husband worked for him.

isasmurf

He got £75 for employing someone previously unemployed. Was this from the Department of Work and Pesnions? If so, then there is something wrong with the system if the DWP do not inform the Inland Revenue of your husband's employment whilst paying £75 to your husband's ex-employer.

The DWP cannot tell the IR anything. The data protection act prevents government departments from sharing information with each other. If they could I'm sure the amount of benefit fraud could be cut down.

ashmit

you're kidding! i'm all for privacy and data protection and all that but... but... that's just ridiculous!

oh well... just one more piece of evidence to suggest that he actually could be on the fiddle. thanks.

System

I also have a question for those helpful people out there I have been a housewife for six years, my husband is in employment, so I have never claimed benefits and so forth. I am now taking a big step and hoping to return to work (permanent or temping). However, I do not have a clue about P45 and my last job was in an office for a company that is no longer in exsistence? Does anybody know what paperwork I need to do and how I can get a P45? Thanks Clare