Vanguard Trackers not Tracking

ChopperST

Borrowedtune wrote: »

I've bailed out of HL so I haven't kept abreast, but when that spreadsheet tool was put together and circulated on here earlier this year, I thought the 0.45% was the 3rd lowest out of the 9 providers that were assessed. I've still got a copy and that's what it seems to say, anyway.


Of course, other providers might have lowered their charges since and my copy may be out-of-date...

All depends on what you what your fund supermarket to do. This table from monevator is the best I've seen out there for comparisons.

http://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/

fezziwig

Thank you gentlemen for all your feedback.

ref: ColdIron "If you invested in VUKE 'as Vanguard have low charges' why did you choose HL, one of the most expensive platforms to hold it on?

Yes good point - I'm planning to switch to iweb, just being a bit lazy and not got round to doing it yet which is what HL must be banking on for many of it's customers. One reason for not investing directly in Vanguard is that they have a minimum initial investment of £100K.

ref: SnowMan "You are probably not allowing for dividends paid out by VUKE but are comparing with a FTSE 100 index allowing for dividends."

Are you sure that the HL index charts (ie FTSE 100) show dividends reinvested? I was under the impression that this was not the case. Couldn't find any references on their site about dividends reinvested on indexes or fund charts. Also the difference in the tracker fund and the index can't be accounted for by charges as HL charges differ depending on the size of the investment.

Well, this has dented my confidence in trackers. Will probably now pull out of Vanguard and spread the proceeds across a few UK blue chip shares instead. At least then there should be a lot less risk of any hanky panky going on with hidden charges behind the scenes.

RetiredInThailand

guymo wrote: »

VUKE has tracked the FTSE 100 very closely as you can see if you look at the charts on e.g. Trustnet.

http://www.trustnet.com/Tools/Charting.aspx?typeCode=E_FG1XE,NUKX

Google Finance has a very different graph:

http://www.google.co.uk/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1410366830148&chddm=128772&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=INDEXFTSE:UKX&cmptdms=0&q=LON:VUKE&ntsp=0&ei=b30QVKDrOsS8kgWS7ICQCA

RetiredInThailand

fezziwig wrote: »

Well, this has dented my confidence in trackers. Will probably now pull out of Vanguard and spread the proceeds across a few UK blue chip shares instead. At least then there should be a lot less risk of any hanky panky going on with hidden charges behind the scenes.

No hanky-panky as long as you dont buy from a fund platform. I buy my ETFs from my stockbroker and pay no yearly fees at all apart from the very small one that Vanguard themselves charge.

My broker just gets normal buying and selling commission when I buy or sell. They dont do anything to deserve a yearly fee, and neither do the likes of HL as far as I can see.

Thrugelmir

RetiredInThailand wrote: »

I think the size of this had something to do with the Vodafone sale, though I never really understood why it was so large or why the price didn't recover before the next dividend as it usually does.

The dividend included the distribution of some of the realised capital following the sale of the share stake in Verizon. In essence Vodafone is now worth considerably less as a business and no longer receives income from Verizon to distribute.

Jam today isn't always as good as it looks.

masonic

RetiredInThailand wrote: »

Google Finance has a very different graph:

http://www.google.co.uk/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1410366830148&chddm=128772&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=INDEXFTSE:UKX&cmptdms=0&q=LON:VUKE&ntsp=0&ei=b30QVKDrOsS8kgWS7ICQCA

Google Finance is notoriously bad for the accuracy of its charts. Share splits, dividend payments, etc often missed. Just one example:

https://www.google.co.uk/finance?chdnp=0&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1410368355092&chddm=33215&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=LON:QPP&ntsp=0&ei=X4MQVOiPJ6HgwQPAk4CACw

1500% gain on the 20th June? I don't think so

Edit: In fact if you turn of the 'With dividends reinvested' option in Trustnet, you do see a big drop in VUKE, which suggests this discrepancy is related to a dividend payment on 19th March.

puk999

guymo wrote: »

VUKE has tracked the FTSE 100 very closely as you can see if you look at the charts on e.g. Trustnet.

http://www.trustnet.com/Tools/Charting.aspx?typeCode=E_FG1XE,NUKX

That Trustnet charting tool looks good. The core of my portfolio is the Fidelity Index World P Acc fund which is supposed to track the MSCI World Index. I can chart the fund there but can't find the index to add to the chart. Is it available on Trustnet?

Failing that, anyone know an alternative way of checking up on the tracking error of the Fidelity fund? The fund factsheet has a graph on it but it's not very detailed.

Financial_Saddler

Maybe it should dent your confidence a bit in ETFs as a vehicle rather than trackers as a whole.
The Vanguard FTSE UK Index Tracker Acc UT has performed closely in line with the FTSE AllShare total return index, so I am very content with this particular passive investment - it is doing exactly as expected.

RetiredInThailand

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The dividend included the distribution of some of the realised capital following the sale of the share stake in Verizon. In essence Vodafone is now worth considerably less as a business and no longer receives income from Verizon to distribute.

I'm aware of that, as I mentioned. What I was not aware of is that the total amounted to 4% of the value of the entire FTSE 100.

masonic

Financial_Saddler wrote: »

Maybe it should dent your confidence a bit in ETFs as a vehicle rather than trackers as a whole.
The Vanguard FTSE UK Index Tracker Acc UT has performed closely in line with the FTSE AllShare total return index, so I am very content with this particular passive investment - it is doing exactly as expected.

I must admit, the one big drawback of these Vanguard ETFs is that dividends are paid out. I'd love to see an 'Acc' version like the fund you mention in which dividends are automatically reinvested.