Do we have any rights with second hand dealer ?

AdrianC

welfayre wrote: »

Out of interest can anyone explain how the trader be held liable for the clutch?

The OP says they tested it prior to sale with no obvious faults, if the clutch was on its way out there would be noticeable slip, noise or problems selecting gears. If there's no signs of wear how would the trader know??

This. It's a £650 trade car. SOGA expectations of that are very, very low. If the clutch problem developed after purchase, you're not going to get a lot back. OTOH, if the trader's got any kind of reputation, I'd expect they'll be happy to do a swap with another of their stock.

Iceweasel

Cody123 wrote: »

You do not pay vat on any second hand cars, only commercial vehicles, and yes he is liable, put it to him that you are going to take it to trading standards first, and see how that pans out, as long as your invoice does not spares or repairs on it, you should be ok.

When did this change to the VAT regs happen?

The dealer will have to account for the VAT on his selling the car to you, in his VAT return, so there is VAT included in the price.

Most commercial vehicles are advertised at the net price (i.e.without VAT) as most buyers of commercial vehicles will be VAT registered themselves and thus able to claim it back.

It's unusual to see a car advertised with the net price, and the VAT as a separate figure, as Joe Public is not usually VAT registered. But on your receipt/invoice from a dealer the VAT will be shown.

If you find a dealer not VAT registered - walk away.

macman

Did your son ask the obvious question, which is 'do you know of any faults on this vehicle'? The dealer is not obliged to reveal faults, but he is obliged to be truthful.
SOGA in theory covers this as the clutch fault must have presumably been present at the time of sale, but, enforcing it with this type of dealer is going to be tricky.
Letter before action, then civil claim, or put it down to experience and walk away.
But why did he accept the vehicle described as 'sold as seen' if he wasn't prepared to take the risk?

AdrianC

Iceweasel wrote: »

When did this change to the VAT regs happen?

The dealer will have to account for the VAT on his selling the car to you, in his VAT return, so there is VAT included in the price.

Most commercial vehicles are advertised at the net price (i.e.without VAT) as most buyers of commercial vehicles will be VAT registered themselves and thus able to claim it back.

It's unusual to see a car advertised with the net price, and the VAT as a separate figure, as Joe Public is not usually VAT registered. But on your receipt/invoice from a dealer the VAT will be shown.

If you find a dealer not VAT registered - walk away.

When a vehicle's new, the full value is VATable.
If it's sold to a VAT-registered entity, then the VAT can be reclaimed, and has to be charged in full on resale, and can then be reclaimed by the purcahser. This continues all the way through to the vehicle's end of life.

BUT if the vehicle's ever bought by a non-VAT-reg entity (including an individual), then the chain of VAT is broken. From then on, the full VAT can never be reclaimed. When it's then bought and sold by a VAT registered trader, they charge VAT on their margin alone.

So, obviously, you see a lot of used commercial vehicles advertsed as "VAT qualifying", or prices +VAT, but few cars. You DO sometimes see them, though.
http://www.jct600.co.uk/brand/ferrari/used-cars/car-details/Ferrari-458%20Spider-VAT%20Qualifying-Leeds-20608217

sillysi

Thanks for the replies - Hopefully I will have an update tomorrow.

motorguy

Iceweasel wrote: »

It's unusual to see a car advertised with the net price, and the VAT as a separate figure, as Joe Public is not usually VAT registered. But on your receipt/invoice from a dealer the VAT will be shown.

If you find a dealer not VAT registered - walk away.

No.

There is no obligation to show VAT on a used car sale as its calculated on the gross profit.

A non VAT registered motor trader may simply not have the turnover to force VAT registration - quite typical if they're part time.

sillysi

UPDATE


The dealer took the car back and refunded in full .In all fairness he was apologetic and was not off with us .
We have learnt a few lessons in buying a used car this week and realise we were lucky with the outcome as this could of been drawn out a lot more than it was .
thanks for all the above advice .

force_ten

sillysi wrote: »

UPDATE


The dealer took the car back and refunded in full .In all fairness he was apologetic and was not off with us .
We have learnt a few lessons in buying a used car this week and realise we were lucky with the outcome as this could of been drawn out a lot more than it was .
thanks for all the above advice .

Thanks for the update and glad you got a result

when you buy from a motor trader you will always have some sort of protection unless the dealer declares known faults at point of sale

if i was selling a car as a private seller then regardless of the age and condition I would write on the bill of sale, sold as seen No warranty given or implied and i would be able to do this and it really is buyer beware

but a dealer cant say the same and sold as seen no refunds means nothing

knightstyle

As this was a dealer who did the decent thing how about naming him?