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Black Horse and IDEM advice please.

dean8312
Posts: 6 Forumite
Hi all,
My partner took out a secured loan in Oct 2007 with Black Horse.
Omitting the personal details, she defaulted in April 2008 and went into arrears. She made little or no payments towards the arrears between April 2008 and meeting me in August 2009.
She was making token payments towards the arrears, until in approx. Dec 2010 we got an unannounced visit by a 'customer service representative', regarding the arrears. The arrears were standing at around £7000 as every month they were piling on collection charges and interest on the outstanding arrears. At the time his only interest was in getting these arrears paid back.
I asked him if Black Horse could reschedule the debt so that we could have a chance to repay it and he said, only verbally, that they would do nothing until we had paid, on time, a minimum amount each month for 12 months.
I told him I would pay at least £300 per month to which he verbally agreed and we made those payments each month until July 2011, when we had another unannounced visit from a different Customer Service Agent. Once again I said I would pay what we could off the arrears and upped our payments to £372 a month, even though these payments were just about servicing the interest on the arrears balance alone. Since Sept 2012, I have paid £375 a month and it has disappeared into a hole to pay the interest on the arrears alone, this amounts to some £14,000 or more. I rung Black Horse time and time again to ask them how we would ever be able to address the initial loan when my £375 was servicing only the arrears interest and was fobbed of and told 'don't worry about that at the moment, focus on making the payments'. When I questioned the cost of the interest on the arrears, on 4 different occasions, they immediately froze the interest on the arrears for 3 six-month periods and last time for six months.
In June 2014, after the final month of the arrears interest freeze, we received an envelope from Idem Servicing containing a forged letter from Black Horse saying that our debt had been sold to Idem and a letter from Idem telling us to continue making payments of the agreed amount straight to them.
Black Horse have sold Idem the loan, not, it would appear, the arrears.
I phoned the Financial Ombudsman to complain about the treatment I had received from Black Horse to say that despite all my efforts to sort out a payment schedule, they had just taken money off me to service the arrears interest and nothing had come off the loan. The Financial Ombudsman Service told me that it looked like the loan and the arrears had been treated as seperate debts and it was OK for Black Horse to service the arrears at the cost of not servicing the actual loan.
Can anyone advise me from a legal standpoint if it is indeed the case that these two debts are stand alone, as like I said we've paid all that money off the arrears, which seem to have disappeared now and paid nothing off the loan, for which we have Idem demanding payment for the loan amount.
Long winded I know but I hope someone out there can advise!!
Thanks in advance,
Dean.
My partner took out a secured loan in Oct 2007 with Black Horse.
Omitting the personal details, she defaulted in April 2008 and went into arrears. She made little or no payments towards the arrears between April 2008 and meeting me in August 2009.
She was making token payments towards the arrears, until in approx. Dec 2010 we got an unannounced visit by a 'customer service representative', regarding the arrears. The arrears were standing at around £7000 as every month they were piling on collection charges and interest on the outstanding arrears. At the time his only interest was in getting these arrears paid back.
I asked him if Black Horse could reschedule the debt so that we could have a chance to repay it and he said, only verbally, that they would do nothing until we had paid, on time, a minimum amount each month for 12 months.
I told him I would pay at least £300 per month to which he verbally agreed and we made those payments each month until July 2011, when we had another unannounced visit from a different Customer Service Agent. Once again I said I would pay what we could off the arrears and upped our payments to £372 a month, even though these payments were just about servicing the interest on the arrears balance alone. Since Sept 2012, I have paid £375 a month and it has disappeared into a hole to pay the interest on the arrears alone, this amounts to some £14,000 or more. I rung Black Horse time and time again to ask them how we would ever be able to address the initial loan when my £375 was servicing only the arrears interest and was fobbed of and told 'don't worry about that at the moment, focus on making the payments'. When I questioned the cost of the interest on the arrears, on 4 different occasions, they immediately froze the interest on the arrears for 3 six-month periods and last time for six months.
In June 2014, after the final month of the arrears interest freeze, we received an envelope from Idem Servicing containing a forged letter from Black Horse saying that our debt had been sold to Idem and a letter from Idem telling us to continue making payments of the agreed amount straight to them.
Black Horse have sold Idem the loan, not, it would appear, the arrears.
I phoned the Financial Ombudsman to complain about the treatment I had received from Black Horse to say that despite all my efforts to sort out a payment schedule, they had just taken money off me to service the arrears interest and nothing had come off the loan. The Financial Ombudsman Service told me that it looked like the loan and the arrears had been treated as seperate debts and it was OK for Black Horse to service the arrears at the cost of not servicing the actual loan.
Can anyone advise me from a legal standpoint if it is indeed the case that these two debts are stand alone, as like I said we've paid all that money off the arrears, which seem to have disappeared now and paid nothing off the loan, for which we have Idem demanding payment for the loan amount.
Long winded I know but I hope someone out there can advise!!
Thanks in advance,
Dean.
0
Comments
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You have a secured loan. Sorry but you have to repay the arrears as well as the original loan and they are entitled to charge interest on the arrears. Whether the arrears and the loan are treated as one debt or two will make no difference.
What interest rate is the secured loan at? Is there equity in your property? Do you have unsecured debts?0 -
This is the problem with secured borrowing, given that the repayments are made over a much longer period than say an unsecured loan, the interest payments alone can be crippling if you fall into arrears as the rate you pay will be variable, what you have in essence is a second mortgage, and the loan is run in the same way as a mortgage would be.
It seems strange to me why they would sell a secured debt in the 1st place as they should/could easily put a charge on your property or even make you Bankrupt in order to service the debt, this is something you may want to look into, as it seems a bit strange to me.I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter0 -
Hi Longtermplanner,
the interest rate on the secured loan at the time of getting it was 14.3%, Unfortunately there is no equity in the property and she has no unsecured debts as she was forced to go through bankruptcy in 2009. What I can't understand is what has happened to the arrears now? The ombudsman service told me the same as you about them charging interest on the arrears.
We just feel that we've been treated badly as we've tried so many times to get them to negotiate so that we could pay this off properly.
Have Idem only bought the debt or have they bought the arrears as well?
Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated,
dean.0 -
Thanks Sourcrates, that's what's confusing me, why sell the debt when it's secured against the property? She was forced to go bankrupt in 2009 and the bankruptcy wouldn't touch the secured loan apparently. I just have a gut feeling here that somethings wrong and I don't know what..... What do you mean by suggesting I could look into things regarding them selling the secured loan?
Cheers,
Dean0 -
I just have a gut feeling here that somethings wrong and I don't know what..... What do you mean by suggesting I could look into things regarding them selling the secured loan?
Cheers,
Dean
Its just unusual, but not unheard of, for a creditor to sell on a secured debt.
Could there be something preventing them obtaining a charging order ?
Have you checked with the land registry, that would be my first port of call, see if you can obtain a copy of the house deeds, if you don't already have one.
There may be nothing untoward here, but it just seems funny why they have not exercised there contractual rights in this case.I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter0 -
I'll start with the Land Registry, thanks, Sourcrates. What sort of thing should I be looking for? Or will something jump out and smack me in the face? What exactly is a charging order and what sort of thing could stop them obtaining one please.
Thanks soooooo much for all your help here!!
Dean.0 -
I'll start with the Land Registry, thanks, Sourcrates. What sort of thing should I be looking for? Or will something jump out and smack me in the face? What exactly is a charging order and what sort of thing could stop them obtaining one please.
Thanks soooooo much for all your help here!!
Dean.
I am no expert on this subject, so cant really advise any further on this, there is lots of info available, try this link first :
http://www.stepchange.org/Debtinformationandadvice/Whatyourcreditorscando/Courtaction/EnglandWalescourtaction/Chargingorder.aspx?WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=2501561&WT.seg_1=charging%20orders&gclid=CI_86O2P0sACFSXKtAodKwsAWQ
Good luck with it !!! :TI’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter0 -
sourcrates wrote: »Could there be something preventing them obtaining a charging order ?
er yes, that would be the fact that the loan is already secured!
Getting a charging order would be a nonsense for a secured loan as you already have a charge over the property, that is what "secured" means...0 -
She was forced to go bankrupt in 2009 and the bankruptcy wouldn't touch the secured loan apparently.
Thsi is wrong. The secured loan was part of her bankruptcy as was the original mortgage. She can let the house be repossessed and walk away from it and cannot be pursued for any shortfall on the mortgage or secured loan.
Of couse if she wishes to stay in the property then she has to keep paying the mortgage and secured loan otherwise the lebders can repossess.0 -
longtermplanner wrote: »er yes, that would be the fact that the loan is already secured!
Getting a charging order would be a nonsense for a secured loan as you already have a charge over the property, that is what "secured" means...
Yes I realise that, what I meant to say was, why have they not exercised there rights over the property instead of selling on the debt ?I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter0
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