Defect for Paypal Refund?

[Deleted User]

Buyer bought a collection only item but paid Paypal. I refunded Paypal and asked for cash, she was fine with that, and the transaction went ahead and completed with no problems.

Just noticed today that I have a defect showing for it as a 'cancelled transaction'.

I didn't realise that refunding a Paypal payment resulted in a defect.
Seems a bit harsh.

[Deleted User]

Just had an interesting conversation with Live Chat about this, which I thought may be of interest to others, so I've copied it below:

Spencer
Welcome to eBay Live Help, my name is Spencer. How may I be of assistance?
xxxxxxx
Hi - I've just noticed on my Transaction Defect Report that I have a defect for item number xxx
Spencer
Hello xxx. To best assist you with this, I need to transfer you to the specialised department/team that handles this type of issue. Please keep in mind there may be a wait time for the next available representative. May I now transfer this Chat?
XXX:
Yes, that's fine.

Spencer
Thank you for confirming. I will transfer you now. Kindly stay connected whilst I do this for you.
Spencer
Has transfered you to:Mark

Mark
Welcome to eBay Live Help, my name is Mark.
Hi there, how may I assist you today?

Me
Hi - I've just noticed on my Transaction Defect Report that I have a defect for item number xxxxx.
It gives the reason as 'transaction cancelled', but the transaction has not been cancelled, it has completed with no problems.

Mark
Okay, I understand that you want to clarify things regarding your defect under a transaction. Rest assured that I'll be doing my best to assist you with this matter.

Me
OK.

Mark
First off, please take note that a cancel transaction case won't harm you otherwise it was filed as "out of stock" or "sold to someone else"

Me
It is currently being counted against me as a defect, it is showing on my defect report.
And also there was no 'cancel transaction' case raised for this item, which is why i can't understand it.

Mark
Okay, well I can see here that you have refunded the buyer without filing any case. Please understand that such action will result to an automatic defect. Again, that is if the seller refunded the buyer directly without filing a cancel transaction case.

Me
I refunded the buyer's Paypal and they paid by a different method. How than that be a defect? I don't understand.

Mark
It's a defect as the system will automatically recognize such action as a violation for "non selling policy" plus, it appears on your account that you accept PayPal payments.

Me
How can it be part of the 'non selling policy?'. I sold the item to the buyer, I was happy, the buyer was happy. How is that possibly a defect?

Mark
If I may ask you , since the buyer paid through PayPal, why do you need to refund them and ask for another payment, since they have already secured their payment through PayPal?

Me
Because if the item is a collection only item, and they pay by Paypal, collect the item and then raise an Item Not Received case, they will win, because I do not have tracking, and they will end up with the item AND the money. I will have nothing. I have to have cash payment to protect myself as a seller because I could end up with no item and no payment if the buyer claimed INR.

Mark
Okay, if they file an item not received case, then just state through the case that the item is cash on collection, besides, we can document conversations through private messages, which we totally consider.

Mark
I tell you what, allow me to look into this for you. Would it be okay, if I hold this chat conversation while I look into this transaction for 2 minutes?

Me
Yes, that's fine.

Mark
Thank you. I'll be back in a bit.

Me
Item not received case = seller has to prove delivery with a tracking number. The case would automatically close against the seller unless a tracking number is put into the case, which I would not be able to do with a collection only item.

Mark
I am still looking into this matter, xxxx. Please give me 2 more minutes to look into this. I’ll be back with you shortly.


Me
Thank uyou

Mark
Thank you for patiently waiting, xxx.
Upon carefully checking this matter, I can see that we can consider things. Nevertheless, next time, please consider to message the buyer right away that you prefer to have the payment through collection. You could also emphasize, your payment's preferences from the listing, at least use bold and big letters.

Me
OK, I will bear that in mind, thank you. Are you able to remove the defect for me?

Mark
Thus, what I did, I have taken the initiative to remove the defect under this transaction. Rest assured that the defect correction from this issue will be shown within 48 hours, no worries.

Me
Thank you very much for your help, Mark, very much appreciated.

soolin

That is actually worrying mrsmstweets and I think I will add a link to this thread to the sticky thread about problems with collection only items.

I have seen this issues mentioned before where a payment has been refunded without a cancellation request, but can't recall where I saw it, and in that thread some sellers said they thought it gave a defect. The issue would be that whilst I am pleased they removed your defect, how long will they continue to do that for sellers?

I am, as usual, also appalled at the blatant misunderstanding of how eBay works shows by their customer service people. eBay might believe they will not allow an INR claim on a collected item- but PayPal terms are quite clear that a claim is allowed as their service is not suitable for collection items.

[Deleted User]

soolin wrote: »

I have seen this issues mentioned before where a payment has been refunded without a cancellation request, but can't recall where I saw it, and in that thread some sellers said they thought it gave a defect. The issue would be that whilst I am pleased they removed your defect, how long will they continue to do that for sellers?

Quite agree, Soolin, I think I just struck lucky on this occasion - I was very surprised they agreed to remove it.

I don't sell many collection only items, but out of maybe half a dozen this year, this is the second that the buyer has paid by Paypal and I've done a refund and they've paid cash. Interestingly, the first one hasn't shown up as a defect - I've only just realised that.

It will make me think twice about listing collection only items in future, to be honest, as I can't afford to be getting defects just because a buyer doesn't read the bit that says 'cash on collection, please'.

RFW

soolin wrote: »

I am, as usual, also appalled at the blatant misunderstanding of how eBay works shows by their customer service people. eBay might believe they will not allow an INR claim on a collected item- but PayPal terms are quite clear that a claim is allowed as their service is not suitable for collection items.

They just appear to be going backwards, it really needs a shake up and I think they're running out of opportunities to do it.

Sorry for banging on about Amazon lately but I think the fundamental difference between the two is the main problem for Ebay and their staff. Amazon sell stuff and Ebay don't. It used to be that Ebay wanted all their staff to have accounts that bought and sold, I remember getting the odd Ebay staff buyer and seeing a staff seller, I don't think that happens any more, I certainly haven't seen evidence of it.
I recently listened to an Ebay webinar on managed returns and the collect at Argos services. The three people talking didn't give the impression that they really knew how selling a product works.
The silly defects are going to effect many of the good sellers and ruin their sales up to Christmas.

techspec

Paypal say they will now cover collected items IF you report it as a crime.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/aug/09/paypal-buyer-protection-ebay-fraud

Of course the clue is in the wording "we will CONSIDER a good will refund"

In theory - nothing as changed and you WILL still be scammed.

It should be ILLEGAL to force users to accept paypal. Of course , they can't make you BUT the new defect system means you won't last long on Ebay if you don't.