Help needed with income related esa and sdp for couples

pilsthedoughman

Hi - I'm new to the forum, so please bear with me.

I was medically retired from my job in April this year (2014) and for the first time in 37 years had to start claiming benefits.

Well, what a shambles the benefit system is IMO - what with all the different benefits and premiums it is just so confusing and I guess many people just give up trying to get around all the "brick walls" that are placed before you - its a disgrace IMHO !

However, I am not one who gives up easily and just want to make sure that my wife and I get what we are entitled to.

I need help with what I might expect to receive during the income related ESA assessment phase; this is what I was placed on in March 2014 and it ended at the start of August having failed the medical assessment.

Our circumstances are as follows;

My wife is disabled and does not work and receives no benefits other than DLA at the highest rates for both components.

I too have health problems (hence my ill health retirement in April 2014) and have just been awarded PIP at the standard rate for both components, backdated to February 2014 when I applied for it.

Income related ESA assessment phase payments started in March 2014 - at the start we were in receipt of no other income at all (other than my wife's DLA) until the end of May 2014 when I started to recieve my small ill health pension of £100 per week.

I was awarded Carers Allowance (for looking after my wife) 2nd May 2014 but have received nothing as the ESA payment were greater so I have had an underlying entitlement to CA right up until the end of ESA,

I need someone to explain to me EXACTLY, IF POSSIBLE what weekly payments I should have been receiving throughout my ESA claim - I'm afrad the Benefit Calculaters give differing results so I have given up with them;

1) MARCH 2014 when Income related ESA started to 1st MAY 2014 ?

2) 2nd MAY when I started having an underlying entitlement to CA to 30th MAY ?

3) 31st MAY when I started receiving £100 per week pension until early AUGUST when my income related ESA ended ?

According to the DWP they overpaid me some £500 or so during the period but because it was their fault they have written it off.

However, I believe that the payments should be looked at now from start as I think that an SDP should have been taken in to account in my payments for £122.20 as both my wife and I qualify and although I have an underlying CA entitlement (my wife does not recieve DLA for looking after me) I never received anything - this would mean that I am owed a back payment even taking account of the amount written off by the DWP.

Thank you in advance to anyone out there who knows how all these premiums work and heve the time to work out the 3 x amounts for me - kind regards - pilsthedoughman

Horseunderwater

Have you appealed the ESA nil points decision as you need to do that within 30 days of that letter. 1st stage is mandatory reconsideration that may take upto 28 days, then if that fails you can appeal it to a tribunal. You need to look at the ESA descriptors to find out which one(s) you meet. The basic couple rate is £113.70 on IR ESA, so even with the pension you should have got £13.70? I may be wrong. Did you get that? Have you applied for CA? It's not automatic. You wife would not get SDP as you are claimiing CA. But if you get the ESA decision reversed, you would get couples rate of EDP.

pmlindyloo

Here is an overview

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS81_Calculating_income-related_Employment_and_Support_Allowance_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

It is extremely complicated so I would suggest you go to CAB and ask them to check everything out for you (choose one with a welfare and benefits specialist, if you can.)

If you decide not to appeal your ESA decision you can claim CA and Income Support instead (ask CAB to do a better off calculation for you).

Of course any figures for your requested time periods will be
'skewed' if you have savings and housing costs as these will be taken into account.

pilsthedoughman

HORSEUNDERWATER

Many thanks for your reply. Despite me chasing on the ESA number I have received absolutely nothing in writing telling me my ESA has ended (I found out through my local Council when they suspended my Housing benefit). However, I have now received a letter from ESA telling me its ended due to the fact I have applied for IS and in the letter they say I can't have both.

From the start I was in receipt of £136.05 income related ESA, even after My underlying entitlement to CA was agreed AND after I started getting the £100 per week pension.

They ended this level of payment once they realised they had cocked up and told me that I was entitled to £72.40 per week plus a small addition of about £10 or so - they verbally told me that these two figures, plus the pension of £100 was equal to the amount I was allowed to live on as per the government guidelines - I recieved the lower figure for the last four weeks of my claim.

According to the Age UK guilines posted by pmlindyloo, the SDP should be at the couple rate where there is an underlying CA entitlement to one of the couple (as is our case) and CA is not being paid - see pages 17 & 18 ???

pmlindyloo

Thank you too for your reply. I phoned my local CAB in Chelmsford and they were next to useless advising me that I needed to contact ESA to see if I was entitled to anything ???

our savings have always been below the £6000 threshold.

ANY FURTHER HELP EITHER OF YOU OR OTHERS CAN GIVE ME WOULD BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED - MANY THANKS

pmlindyloo

pilsthedoughman wrote: »

HORSEUNDERWATER

Many thanks for your reply. Despite me chasing on the ESA number I have received absolutely nothing in writing telling me my ESA has ended (I found out through my local Council when they suspended my Housing benefit). However, I have now received a letter from ESA telling me its ended due to the fact I have applied for IS and in the letter they say I can't have both.

From the start I was in receipt of £136.05 income related ESA, even after My underlying entitlement to CA was agreed AND after I started getting the £100 per week pension.

They ended this level of payment once they realised they had cocked up and told me that I was entitled to £72.40 per week plus a small addition of about £10 or so - they verbally told me that these two figures, plus the pension of £100 was equal to the amount I was allowed to live on as per the government guidelines - I recieved the lower figure for the last four weeks of my claim.

According to the Age UK guilines posted by pmlindyloo, the SDP should be at the couple rate where there is an underlying CA entitlement to one of the couple (as is our case) and CA is not being paid - see pages 17 & 18 ???

pmlindyloo

Thank you too for your reply. I phoned my local CAB in Chelmsford and they were next to useless advising me that I needed to contact ESA to see if I was entitled to anything ???

our savings have always been below the £6000 threshold.

ANY FURTHER HELP EITHER OF YOU OR OTHERS CAN GIVE ME WOULD BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED - MANY THANKS

I have to say I tend to agree with you after reading the link that you should have received the SDP.

Just in case - did you inform that that you were receiving PIP and your wife was receiving DLA? (I am sure you did but worth checking)

Chelmsford CAB do have 'drop in' advice services where you might receive more help - they could phone the Job Centre on your behalf and ask why you didn't receive your SDP - but they don't appear to have a benefits specialist. Mmmmm.

You could ring the Job Centre yourself and ask them to explain why you didn't receive the SDP. (I would print off the link so you could quote it)

There could be more to it than Age Concern have written - will try and find some more info if I can.

The figures you quote don't appear right to me so it would be good to have someone check them out.

What a mess

pilsthedoughman

I have just received a response for help from Age UK - " make sure you get an IS10, fill it in and return it"

A total waste of time !

is there no one that you can turn to for detailed advise or is it that the system is so complex no one is prerpared to run the risk of giving incorrect information ?

Another question - should I have qualified for the three disability premiums (normal, enhanced and severe) or are you only entitled to one ?

Indie_Kid

pThere's no basic disability premium on ESA. It's only the severe and enhanced disability premiums.

Someone mentioned that because you receive carers allowance, your wife isn't entitled to severe disability premium. You, however, would be entitled to the severe disability premium.

pmlindyloo

here are some help lines that may be useful:

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/getting-advice#phone

You could try Carers UK since you were unhappy with CAB.

I don't know whether this will help but if they have access to the CPAG - Welfare Benefits and Tax credits handbook then the answer will be in there - that's the 'bible' , so to speak!

epitome

pilsthedoughman wrote: »

I have just received a response for help from Age UK - " make sure you get an IS10, fill it in and return it"

A total waste of time !

Are you saying you have already done an IS10 for YOUR SDP (not your wife's) because that is good advice, you will need to do an IS10 for YOUR SDP.

Another question - should I have qualified for the three disability premiums (normal, enhanced and severe) or are you only entitled to one ?

Yes you should get EDP couple rate £22.35 ish and SDP couple £122.20

But there is a complication, if you claimed CA to care for your wife then her SDP part would have stopped. leaving you with your SDP £62.10 .

There is a bit that doesn't make sense in all of this. You say you were on ESA IR and claiming CA, and they told you you won't get CA because ESA pays too much... This sounds all wrong to me. At that time ESA should have been:
113.70
22.35
61.10
34.20

Total £231.35

But you should then have been paid CA £61.35, which should have been deducted out of 231.35 leaving you with
ESA £170
CA £61.35

You need to quote how much ESA you were awarded for these periods. (before deductions.)

I need to see it all in more detail before I comment.

i.e. start of claim date and award rate
start of CA claim date, and if any CA was paid... and at the same time what your ESA rate was. All the dates your ESA rate changed and what it changed to.

If you had an entitlement to ESA C (underneath your ESA IR)?

If you don't have the details, phone ESA and hope you get someone competant, who can look in screen 523 'F2' to see your rate history and dates and if necessary the date of the decision of those rates.

This is very complicated stuff and doing it blind over the internet is almost impossible. But I need much more than you have shown so far.

pilsthedoughman

Epitome -

here are the figures / amounts with dates;

22/3/14 to 4/4/14

Living Exps £112.55
Extra DIG £21.75

total payment - £134.30, increasing to £136.05 from 12/4/14

26/4/14 to 8/8/14

Living Exps £113.70
Extra because I am a Carer £34.20
Extra DIG £22.35

total payment - £170.25 (reducing to £78.25 from 2/5/14 - after receiving no other income since the start of ESA, my small ill - health occupational pension commenced 2/5/14 for £92 per week).

I was awarded an underlying entitlement to Carers Allowance from 2/5/14 and no payment of carers allowance was paid to me during the period of ESA payments.

There was a dispute between me and the DWP during July re my savings - after I provided evidence they agreed that I was entitled to Income realated ESA throughout this assessment period, meaning that I received full HB and CTR as well.

Since December 2011 my wife receives DLA at the highest rate for both components.

20/8/14 AFTER my ESA payments had ended I received notice that I had been awarded PIP at the standard rate for both components backdated to February when I made the claim - a back payment of £2k approx was made to me.

EPIOME - Any help you can give would be appreciated or if you need any more info - many thanks, regards

epitome

pilsthedoughman wrote: »

Epitome -

here are the figures / amounts with dates;

22/3/14 to 4/4/14

Living Exps £112.55
Extra DIG £21.75

total payment - £134.30, increasing to £136.05 from 12/4/14

26/4/14 to 8/8/14 <<<You were awarded CA (UE) from 02/05/2014 these dates must be wrong. Now you have PIP DL std from February 2014... you would now be entitled to claim SDP for you and your partner from the start of the ESA claim up to the 01/05/2014.... approx £120 per week, You should phone and ask for an IS10 form to be sent.

Living Exps £113.70
Extra because I am a Carer £34.20
Extra DIG £22.35

total payment - £170.25 (reducing to £78.25 from 2/5/14 - after receiving no other income since the start of ESA, my small ill - health occupational pension commenced 2/5/14 for £92 per week).

I was awarded an underlying entitlement to Carers Allowance from 2/5/14 and no payment of carers allowance was paid to me during the period of ESA payments.

There was a dispute between me and the DWP during July re my savings - after I provided evidence they agreed that I was entitled to Income realated ESA throughout this assessment period, meaning that I received full HB and CTR as well.

Since December 2011 my wife receives DLA at the highest rate for both components.

20/8/14 AFTER my ESA payments had ended I received notice that I had been awarded PIP at the standard rate for both components backdated to February when I made the claim - a back payment of £2k approx was made to me.

From the 02/05/2014 to the end of your claim you should be able to get SDP for yourself £61.10 per week, because you got CA (UE) and a Carer Premium on ESA from this date, I doubt you would be entitled to SDP for both of you at the rate £122.20, essentially you will have lost out by £27 a week for having made a claim to CA.

When you return your IS10 include a copy of the PIP decision letter and explain to ESA in your letter, you are claiming now because you have only just become eligible for SDP for the period of ESA.

You were awarded CA(UE) because you probably had an entitlement to ESA Conts, I am not sure of the rules of CA and ESA Conts, I know that ordinarily someone with ESA Conts & ESA IR with a relatively low award rate of ESA i.e. £130/£160 p/w or less, cannot get paid CA because the underlying ESA Conts award of £72.40, £101 or £108 will not allow the CA to be deducted out. In your case, now that you have PIP and your partner DLA C high... your rate of ESA for the period where CA was claimed could have been
113.70
22.35
61.10
34.20
Total £231.35
subtract your pension = £139.35
Subtract the hypothetical CA (if it had been paid @ £61.35) = £78.00

As you apparently never had a WCA your rate of ESA Conts will always remain to be £72.40 for the entire claim, so arguably you could have received CA for the period and there would have been enough "room" for it to only affect the ESA IR part of your claim.... This is a question to ask Carers Allowance, not ESA and only if you are succesful in getting the extra £61.10 backdated on the ESA claim............ It could be that where there is an ESA Conts element, no matter how large the ESA IR element is, the CA is not allowed to be paid. and so you won't get that extra £27 pw.

If you are not successful for the extra SDP on ESA, you should ask for a statement of reasons as to why you are not allowed it, and then ask DWP PIP for compensation showing PIP your ESA letter of refusal for SDP backdating on the basis that had PIP not taken so long you would have been allowed the extra SDP on ESA, so it is DWP/PIP's fault that you lost out.

If DWP does not give compensation to the sum of what you would have received in SDP... then complain to the Independant Case Examiner.