APCOA BA02 Birmingham Airport

boxy123

Like many others we've received a ANPR PCN for BA02-dropping off/picking up outside a designated parking area at Birmingham airport. We picked up some passengers and was only stopped for around 45 seconds. We've being doing this for years and had no idea that we were committing an offence.
The main difference this time is that there could be more pcns on the way as over a number of days we had several visitors needing dropping off/picking up.
Half of me is thinking pay up and the worry is over, but this could cost me a lot of money.
If we try and appeal, we are not sure what the maximum amount we would have to pay for each pcn if the appeal fails i.e what happens if it runs over the 28 day period while we wait for each reply?
We are a bit put off by having to collect evidence as the Airport is over 80 miles round trip and we could be stung again if we don't park up in a designated area!
Any advice much appreciated.

Coupon-mad

If we try and appeal, we are not sure what the maximum amount we would have to pay for each pcn if the appeal fails i.e what happens if it runs over the 28 day period while we wait for each reply?

LOL. You don't pay a penny, we never lose.

But OK for arguments' sake I can tell you that the amount of the PCN (without the bribe discount!) is the maximum POPLA can say you 'should' pay if you lost at POPLA. But you can't lose at POPLA if appealing as a registered keeper (NOT saying who was driving) and pointing out that means a keeper cannot be held liable as this is not relevant land.

We are a bit put off by having to collect evidence as the Airport is over 80 miles round trip

No-one said you have to get any evidence at all.

This is a really simple 2 stage template appeal system which will win or I will eat my hat! Just use the templates in the Newbies thread post #1 (and see post #3 for POPLA stage, copy the APCOA Airport example). You can do this in minutes - DO NOT use the appeal that the MSE article takes you to, not the one with the blue bits to fill in your address. SEE THE TOP THREAD ON THIS FORUM INSTEAD.

Redx

I wouldnt even bother collecting evidence as this airport crops up all the rime on here, same as the other airports , so not even relevant land for POFA 2012

Just appeal each pcn using the template appeal in the NEWBIES sticky thread, then use a recent popla appeal from other members on here to popla, for each pcn

its that simple really, although it will take a few months to complete

if you decided its too difficult, pay PTAS £16 for each ticket to do it for you, still cheaper than paying these numpties

so its DIY, or pay PTAS at parkingticketappeals,org.uk

boxy123

Many Thanks for all your advice.

The post thread order seems to change whenever I log in.

Please can you confirm the template I should be using for APCOA at BHX. Not sure if it affects the template but the pcn I received looks to be over the "allowed" 14 days.


I assume the postal address is:-

APCOA Parking
PO BOX 1010
Middlesex
UB8 9NT

Not sure if an appeal can be uploaded to apcoa, or is it wise to go for mail as it can be recorded.

Many Thanks

Redx

it will do apart from the sticky threads as they are "stuck" to the top of the forum

your pcn,s should give their postal address

those same pcn,s should also tell you how to appeal and where to appeal to

we cannot tell you this, as you have the paperwork

the template to use is in post #1 of the sticky thread for NEWBIES at the top of this forum, written by coupon-mad

then for popla use the vcs at JLA like this one mentioned in the POPLA links

VCS at ANY AIRPORT, new version with quote from POPLA re commercial justification

just amend the location and PPC etc as it applies to all airports

boxy123

The ba02 Dropping Off/Picking up outside of a designated parking area pcn I received is as follows:-

APCOA PARKING

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE
BIRMINGHAM AIRPORT


TO THE RESPONDANT
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx


Charge Notice No. -xxxx
Vehicle Reg No. -xxxx xxx
Date of issue of this Notice - xxx
Date notice given - ASSUMED TO BE 4
WORKING DAYS AFTER
DATE OF ISSUE

Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark XXXX XXX For the alleged contravention of BA02 - Dropping off / Picking up outside of a designated parking area. captured by ANPR Camera at Birmingham International Airport on xx/xx/xx at xx:xx.
The alleged contravention is a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of Birmingham International Airport. Signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions.

Please note that the driver of the vehicle at the time of the breach of terms and conditions detailed above is required to pay the parking charges in respect of the above and these have not yet been paid in full.

As we do not know either the name of the driver or their current serviceable address, we request that you either pay the full amount outstanding as noted above; or if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the specified period provide us with the name of the driver and their current serviceable address and pass this
notice onto them. If you have sold the vehicle, please provide us with the details of whom the vehicle was sold to as well as proof of sale.

A charge of £100.00 is payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the 'date given' above. If the charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the 'date given', the amount of the charge will be reduced by 50%.

The vehicle keeper data has been obtained from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (under Regulation 27(l)(e) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002). They have provided the details above as the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date and time of issue of the Parking Charge Notice. If you believe your data has been used/provided inappropriately, you can notify the DVLA by contacting 0870 2400010

Collection activity may result in increased charges and APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd may engage third party Debt Collectors or commence legal proceedings for the recovery of the charge together with all associated costs.

Should you wish to dispute the issuing of this Parking Charge Notice, you can do so in writing to the address listed below within 28 days from the 'date given' of this letter. All appeals must be directed to APCOA in the first instance. The Independent Appeals Panel - POPLA, may be engaged as a final avenue of recourse once APCOA's appeals process has been exhausted.

How To Pay
PLEASE VISIT: http://airportPCNpayment.apcoa.com to make a secure online payment

Alternatively you can send a Cheque or Postal Order made payable to APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd to:
APCOA PARKING,
PO BOX 1010,
Uxbridge
UB89NT Or call 0845 303 7397 and speak to one of our operatives.



Please note: The images below and Additional Images relating to this Parking Charge notice can also be obtained via the payment link (web address) provided above”.

I've read through the suggested words on this site and have come up with the following:-


APCOA Parking
PO BOX 1010
Middlesex
UB8 9NT
Dear APCOA,

PCN number :
Vehicle Registration No.:

As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
4) Birmingham Airport is not "relevant land" for the purposes of POFA 2012 Schedule 4 therefore I cannot be held liable as keeper.

5) I am the keeper and your notice to owner is not compliant with POFA 2012. Therefore only the driver can be held responsible for this charge, not the registered keeper, and as keeper I have no legal obligation to name the driver.

Note: As you are pursuing the wrong person, you are advised that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarrassment.

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

Any suggestions for changes much appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Yep you can use that longer version or the shorter version linked above it in the Newbies thread.

As for POPLA stage - I have re-written the 'APCOA Airport' POPLA appeal template and it's all shiny and new and linked in the 'How to win at POPLA' section of post #3 of the Newbies thread. A poster called Tyler Durden_UK is about to use it today in his case and it has the winning points so I am 100% certain it will win at POPLA (Airport cases being the easiest!).

Of course forum posts change order, it's a live summary of current conversations! The first page shows the latest posts and currently, the POPLA Decisions sticky thread has jumped above the Newbies thread because someone posted on it more recently. But the 'stickies' still jostle at the top at all times, with the latest threads under it in time order (newest at the top). To find you own thread or any posts you made, just click on your username...try it!

Dublindel

Don't pay anyone to handle this for you. It's currently FREE to win and that's what we are here for.

boxy123

Just wondering if my proposed letter wording is ok to send off to apcoa?
Thanks in advance.

Dee140157

C-M gave you the answer on post 7. Seeing as she wrote that appeal, I think you can trust her!

Redx

agreed, already answered by CM earlier, where she said use your proposed wording or her rewrite, either will win