no one seems to know if my property is a HMO!!!!!!!!

seven-day-weekend

Right, our son has always had that room, ever since he was a little boy when it was our family home. Plenty of people have bedrooms that have velux windows. What difference does it make how many other people live in the house ? We took professional advice when we got him the escape ladder (from the Fire Brigade) so short of not using the room at all what else should we do?

I think we have taken adequate precautions -what else should we do? Am I supposed to force the Council to inspect it? What good will sticking a washbasin in the room do?

I don't want my son and his friends gassed or burnt to death either, that's why I have taken these precautions.

Bearing in mind that from 2010 we ourselves will be living back in the house again for six months of the year, with our son and maybe one lodger. But then it will be at the most only two households, so it won't be a HMO, will it? And if we got rid of one of the lodgers now, it wouldn't be a HMO so if the Council HAD insisted, that is what we would have done.

How can the same house be a HMO and terribly unsafe one minute and not the next?

red40

It comes down to the risk element for the occupiers of the property, the more unrelated people you have under one roof the greater the risk.

Although I must say your argument of moving back in is correct, in fact I will go one better and inform you that as the property stands, as I understand, your son and 2 friends (tenants) it is a HMO at present. But this is the best point of all, when you move back in with your son, the 2 'tenants' can still stay with you and it wont be classed as a HMO, because you are a resident landlord.

There is plenty more you can do, with regards to fire precautions, fixed electrical installation tested and inspected, etc, but as I have already said and TJ is correct it comes down to risk and it would be better the council assisted you further than what appears to be a 'fob off to you'.

Doesn't matter how many velux windows you have with rope ladders, windows opening onto flat roof's, a store full of mattresses only to be used in case of a fire, the legality of it, is the primary escape route is always the communal staircase and it is that that requires the protection,a long with other areas if required. Hope that helps?

Oh wash hand basins aren't required anymore, its only where reasonable practicable and it is a rule only for licensable HMO's which yours isn't.

I should also add if you make your son the freeholder of the property, it wont be a HMO either, lol, if correct safety bothers you that much.

bobby-boy_2

Hi SDW you said "How can the same house be a HMO and terribly unsafe one minute and not the next?"
Answer easily by not being an HMO the second minute. You can have any number of people living there and it is not an HMO if they are related. Its as simple as that. Its like being not allowed to drink alchohol one day but you are the next because you have turned 18. The rules have to set a certain number and your house with 3 UNRELATED people is an HMO end of!

TJ27

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Right, our son has always had that room, ever since he was a little boy when it was our family home. Plenty of people have bedrooms that have velux windows. What difference does it make how many other people live in the house ? We took professional advice when we got him the escape ladder (from the Fire Brigade) so short of not using the room at all what else should we do?

I think we have taken adequate precautions -what else should we do? Am I supposed to force the Council to inspect it? What good will sticking a washbasin in the room do?

I don't want my son and his friends gassed or burnt to death either, that's why I have taken these precautions.

Bearing in mind that from 2010 we ourselves will be living back in the house again for six months of the year, with our son and maybe one lodger. But then it will be at the most only two households, so it won't be a HMO, will it? And if we got rid of one of the lodgers now, it wouldn't be a HMO so if the Council HAD insisted, that is what we would have done.

How can the same house be a HMO and terribly unsafe one minute and not the next?

Hey, that's great. Like I say if you're happy that it's safe that's fine. All I'm saying is that it certainly does not come up to the standard of a 3 storey HMO. But it doesn't really bother me because I don't live there and I'm not enforcing any rules. It's up to you whether you force the council to take a look. It's up to them whether they chose to do so but if I were in their shoes I'd be covering my !!!!! and insisting on it.

Who mentioned basins? We've never had that rule in my part of the world but I don't think it applies in England either now.

Short of not using the second floor room it's a good idea to fit mains wired alarms with a battery backup. Although battery powered detectors (no matter low long they last) are not allowed in two storey houses, let alone three. There are several other things that I would be checking too, like the layout, the floor covering, the ceiling covering, the availability of a protected route, the presence of inner rooms, etc, etc, etc.

One of the differences between a HMO and a family home is this. In a family home the family members generally know where everybody is. In the event of fire in my house, say, I would know where everybody is. In a HMO people are more independant and if there's a fire people generally don't know whether their housemates are in or out. It's not so bad with fewer people of course, that's why it matters how many other people live in the house. So a house can indeed change occupancy and be relatively safe one moment and less safe the next.

HMO regs do not allow for escape ladders to the second floor, even though building regs do. The emphasis is on making the main escape route safe. I think you've already given us the reason why in your post by saying your son had the room when he was a little boy. I doubt that I'd trust my five year old to get out on a roof 10 metres high and climb to safety on a rope ladder if his room filed with smoke. Still, I'd agree that's it's better to have one than not. (And I know your son isn't five any more but in a HMO tenants tend to change quite regularly.)

Again, as long as you're happy that's great. All I'm saying is that if you'd asked me for advice I'd be taking a look rather than giving the OK by phone, for my benefit more than anything else.

clutton_2

the number of deaths in rental accommodation has decreased very well in recent years due to all these regs - more folks die these day from cold - thats what all the EU certification re ERCs is all about. Also the number of deaths in rental property from carbon monoxide poison has decreased dramatically in recent years - again due to these regs - but, it has not gone down in owner occupier property .......

reminds myself - must get my own boiler serviced !!!

You have received some exceptionally good advice in this thread !!!

seven-day-weekend

We have always had our boiler serviced every year even when it was our family home and have continued to do so since we left to live in Spain, with the addition of the Gas Certificate. I totally agree with this legislation.

I understand that my house may not come totally up to regs, but we are coming back in 2010 and meanwhile are doing the best we can.

The two people who live with my son are his friends and were friends before they lived together, so are not in the same position as people in a HMO who do not know each other.

I do see the point of the regulations (apart from the washbasins) and agree that most of them are necessary. However, as we are coming back to the house in 2010 (we left it in 2004), I am not going to have fire doors and washbasins etc fitted. I have taken what I consider to be adequate precautions. If these are not enough I will get rid of one of the lodgers (he is leaving in a few months anyway when he has got another job) and bring the property out of HMO regulations.

Thanks for all your advice and I hope the OP has been helped.

(Edited to add - November 2008 - one of the lodgers left at the end of September 2008 and we have not replaced him so now my son lives there with one other guy and my house is out of HMO regs.).