PCN issued while i was waiting for space to get my lorry out

kevin0410

Hi,
I was issued a pcn by armtrac. After completing a delivery I backed my lorry up near parking spaces in order to exit, meanwhile, a car parks on double yellow lines and blocks my exit. While waiting for car to move, the pcn was issued for obstructive parking.
the vehicle is owned by my employer.


thanks for any advice.

Stroma

I would put an appeal in now to take your employer out of the equation, read the sticky thread by coupon mad on how to do that. I think Armtrac are in the bpa AOS so they can get RK details from the dvla.

kevin0410

just an update, i sent of the appeal to armtrac, as the vehicle does not belong to me.

here is what i sent:

Dear K.B.T Cornwall LTD t/as Armtrac Security Services.

PCN number xxxxxxxxxx
I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'
D) The Parking Charge Notice should never has been issued. The Vehicle in question, xxxxxxx, at the time the PCN was issued, was being maneuvered following delivery to the Poundland Store. Mid-way through the maneuver, another vehicle became parked in such a way that it became impossible for the driver of xxxxxxx to complete the maneuver and exit the parking area. The driver was waiting for the aforementioned obstructing vehicle to move away at the exact time the PCN was issued.


As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Yours,

Stroma

Yes that will do it, just wait for the reply. Did you do the appeal online or through the post? Did you get proof of postage if the latter?

Cheers

kevin0410

Stroma wrote: »

Yes that will do it, just wait for the reply. Did you do the appeal online or through the post? Did you get proof of postage if the latter?

Cheers

I did it via email.

Kevin.

Coupon-mad

From another thread:

kevin0410 wrote: »

can i just ask, did you appeal to Armtrac by email or letter? how long did it take for a response?

i am awaiting a response from Armtrac for an emailed appeal...

The reason I asked is that the vehicle belongs to my employer and I would like the appeal to be processed and 'hooked' in my direction before my employers receive a NTK.

Hmmmm... it's a bit difficult for you then, but after all you have only just put the appeal in last week so I would wait maybe 3 weeks to see if a reply arrives. It's difficult because technically if Armtrac are not certain who was driving they 'should' issue a NTK anyway but they can't do so until day 29 at the earliest (day 29 from the PCN date).

Can you send a copy of your appeal to your employer and say you are appealing a private PCN and have taken on the responsibility so if hey do get a NTK next month they are not liable and can just pass it to you and/or write to tell the PPC who the car is used by on a daily basis.

If it's a small employer which owns its own cars this should be OK. If a large employer with a fleet from a lease firm, I would follow up the appeal if you don't hear anything by day 25 (counting from the PCN date) and would even state clearly that you are the driver. This would stop them from having any excuse to contact the employer at all.

And you'd still win at POPLA on 'no GPEOL' anyway.

No rush but have a look at the date of the PCN and diarise to follow up if need be, in time.

kevin0410

The vehicle in question is actually a 26 ton LGV, clearly marked with the company's branding, so it could be clear to Armtrac that I am probably not the keeper of the vehicle, as i put in my appeal, so i heed your advice that is may be a good idea to admit being the driver.

Coupon-mad

I think I would but maybe wait a bit, because you know they can't write to the company until after day 28. Maybe they will send you a rejection letter next week and a POPLA code anyway and you will be laughing. If not I think I would do a deliberately naïve follow up (to hook them in) saying 'I can't understand why you haven't replied yet, I appealed weeks ago. Please send my POPLA code and for the avoidance of doubt I am appealing as driver.'

Northlakes

As an owner of a HVG operators licence, and given the experience you have had it is possible that this postcode could in future be boycotted.
It only takes Palletrak, Palleforce, Palletline and TPN to boycott this postcode and it will become unsuitable for delivery.
Any address in this postcode and landowner within it will soon get the message!

kevin0410

Update:


I received a letter from Armtrac today, saying that 'as a gesture of goodwill, on this occasion we will cancel the PCN'


RESULT!!


Thanks for the help,
Kevin.

MothballsWallet

Kevin, did you mention this situation and PCN to your employer?

If so, did you say you were dealing with it and that they could refer the PPC and / or its agents to the reply given in Arkell v Pressdram if the PPC contacted them?