Deed of Variation

getmore4less

g6jns wrote: »

But until probate the beneficiary does not get any rent because that is due to executors.

the executors get nothing they just collect income on behalf of those with the benificial interest in the assets of the estate.

g6jns_2

getmore4less wrote: »

the executors get nothing they just collect income on behalf of those with the benificial interest in the assets of the estate.

Which is what I was saying. It is absurd to interpret it as anything else.

Mojisola

g6jns wrote: »

Yes I did get it in writing.

Well, I asked the question -
"If a person is receiving means tested benefits and is left an inheritance, can they make a deed of variation passing the capital onto someone else or just outright refuse the inheritance and continue to claim benefits or would these actions be seen as deliberate deprivation of capital?"

and got the reply -
"In all the income-related benefits, if a person has spent or given away any of their capital, the local authority/social security decision maker has to consider whether that person has deprived himself/herself deliberately of a capital resource with the intention of securing or increasing entitlement to benefit. Where this is believed to be the case, that person will be treated as still possessing that capital when entitlement to benefit is assessed."

What did your written reply say?

g6jns_2

Mojisola wrote: »

Well, I asked the question -
"If a person is receiving means tested benefits and is left an inheritance, can they make a deed of variation passing the capital onto someone else or just outright refuse the inheritance and continue to claim benefits or would these actions be seen as deliberate deprivation of capital?"

and got the reply -
"In all the income-related benefits, if a person has spent or given away any of their capital, the local authority/social security decision maker has to consider whether that person has deprived himself/herself deliberately of a capital resource with the intention of securing or increasing entitlement to benefit. Where this is believed to be the case, that person will be treated as still possessing that capital when entitlement to benefit is assessed."

What did your written reply say?

The reply you have had does not support your assertion that declining to accept a legacy or bequest counts as deprivation of capital. A person cannot deprive themself of something they don't possess. It is a long accepted principle of English law that nobody can be forced to accept a legacy or bequest. That is the point you have missed. Unless, and until, someone accepts the legacy or bequest they don't possess it. Let me give an example of a friend who was in the fortunate position of being able to pay off his daughter's mortgage. The DWP were consulted as to what effect, if any, it would have on any means tested benefits the daughter received. The answer was that provided the money was paid direct to the lender then no deprivation of capital occurred because the daughter and her husband never possessed the funds. If the funds had been passed to the daughter who then paid off the mortgage then it would have counted.

Mojisola

g6jns wrote: »

The reply you have had does not support your assertion that declining to accept a legacy or bequest counts as deprivation of capital. A person cannot deprive themself of something they don't possess. It is a long accepted principle of English law that nobody can be forced to accept a legacy or bequest. That is the point you have missed. Unless, and until, someone accepts the legacy or bequest they don't possess it.

Let me give an example of a friend who was in the fortunate position of being able to pay off his daughter's mortgage. The DWP were consulted as to what effect, if any, it would have on any means tested benefits the daughter received. The answer was that provided the money was paid direct to the lender then no deprivation of capital occurred because the daughter and her husband never possessed the funds. If the funds had been passed to the daughter who then paid off the mortgage then it would have counted.

No, I haven't missed the point. I directly asked the DWP if refusing an inheritance or making a DOV would be acceptable - if it was, they would have replied saying so.

Given the reply they sent, it has to stand that it could be seen as deprivation.

Refusing an inheritance isn't the same as the example you give - the money didn't belong to the daughter.

In the case of an inheritance or DOV, the beneficiary has to sign paperwork to say - I am handing this money over to someone else. The money might not have been paid out but it did belong to the beneficiary otherwise they wouldn't need to sign it away.

Would you share the written evidence you have from the DWP saying that it is alright to give away an inheritance so that I can question the DWP about the different advice being given.

g6jns_2

Mojisola wrote: »

No, I haven't missed the point. I directly asked the DWP if refusing an inheritance or making a DOV would be acceptable - if it was, they would have replied saying so.

Given the reply they sent, it has to stand that it could be seen as deprivation.

Refusing an inheritance isn't the same as the example you give - the money didn't belong to the daughter.

In the case of an inheritance or DOV, the beneficiary has to sign paperwork to say - I am handing this money over to someone else. The money might not have been paid out but it did belong to the beneficiary otherwise they wouldn't need to sign it away.

Would you share the written evidence you have from the DWP saying that it is alright to give away an inheritance so that I can question the DWP about the different advice being given.

I don't have the written reply as it was not my family just a friend who asked me for informal advice. He subsequently wrote to the DWP and they replied as I have stated. The way you phrased the question would have suggested to me that you were saying that the beneficiary had actually received the legacy in which case giving it away would amount to deprivation. What you need to ask is simply does the refusal to accept a legacy amount to deprivation? Nothing else. Logically I don't believe it can be because, as I have said repeatedly, you cannot deprive yourself of something you don't actually own. Putting it another way until the executor actually pays the money the beneficiary is only a creditor of the estate. Finally I would say that ultimately it would be for the courts to decide i.e. the DWP do not have the last word on what the law means.

Mojisola

g6jns wrote: »

Yes I did get it in writing.

g6jns wrote: »

I don't have the written reply as it was not my family just a friend who asked me for informal advice. He subsequently wrote to the DWP and they replied as I have stated.

The way you phrased the question would have suggested to me that you were saying that the beneficiary had actually received the legacy in which case giving it away would amount to deprivation.

"If a person is receiving means tested benefits and is left an inheritance, can they make a deed of variation passing the capital onto someone else or just outright refuse the inheritance and continue to claim benefits or would these actions be seen as deliberate deprivation of capital?"

What you need to ask is simply does the refusal to accept a legacy amount to deprivation? Nothing else. .

I did...........

getmore4less

Having someone pay off your is a completely different scenario.

g6jns_2

Mojisola wrote: »

I did...........

In which case why did you say that you asked a different question? The EXACT wording is crucial. Exactly, word for worde what question idid you ask?

g6jns_2

getmore4less wrote: »

Having someone pay off your is a completely different scenario.

Quite wrong. The crucial point is that the benefit claimer did not, at any time own the money.