Rights as a lodger?

V6Matt

G_M wrote: »

You're a lodger. It is the landlord's home, you must abide by the landlord's rules.

When advising people who are considering taking in lodgers I always recommend they make clear in advance what the rules/boundaries are, especially regarding guests and access to which areas of the property, sharing of costs (consumables) etc to avoid just this sort of misunderstanding/conflict.

Thanks, this is exactly the problem, none of these rules were set apart from split of household utilities.

I am more than happy to move, but the landlord has said I will lose my deposit which is not an acceptable situation.

The question for me is:

What is the position if my girlfriend continues to come over:-

1) Can they enforce a charge?
2) Can they refuse entry?

If none of the above, presumably just agreement over early contract end? As surely they can't just make up rules whenever they fancy, the biggest issue is just the early contract end (which to be honest, given the unreasonable nature of the landlord...suits me!)

PasturesNew

You're confusing yourself by trying to find evidence that you're not a lodger .... and f4nnying about with legal jargon .... and cobbling it all together just so you can justify having a sh4g and doing what you want.

LL's house, LL's rules. They're obviously house-proud and have a different opinion as to what's allowed/not to you .... so if you don't like it, learn the lessons and move on. Imagine the crush for the kitchen if everybody had somebody staying over at the weekend!

You're a lodger, the LL lives in - it'd be usual/normal to discuss such situations before moving in anywhere and/or after ... not by sneaking them in then getting on your high horse when the answer's "no".

If you want to "live your own life" then you need to find a shared house, not one where the LL lives and is house proud. You are not in a shared house, you're under the LL's beady eye and roof.

If you'd booked a B&B at the seaside and pulled some sort in a club ..... the guest house owner'd charge you a nightly rate (even though you sneaked them in and out again at 6am so the owner wouldn't know). Live in LL's often make such a charge to dissuade people from doing it - and to make it fair to everybody (who hasn't got guests staying regularly).

G_M

V6Matt wrote: »

1) Can they enforce a charge? No, since there has been no contract agreeing to such a charge in return for guest access

2) Can they refuse entry?
Yes. Since it is the LL's home, they can request anyone without lawful right of access to leave, and use 'reasonable force' to evict the trespasser.

Of course, if you agree to pay the charge in return for the LL agreeing to allow the guest access, that's fine.

Insisting on your partner staying, against the LL's wishes, will just escalate/provaricate and make an extremely unpleasant environment for all. Really not worth it.

Nor is allocating blame ("LL should have made clear in advance...." Vs "Tenant should have asked permission before....").

But I suspect the truth is that this arrangement is beyond compromise or negotiation. Best result would be for you to find somewhere else and to agree an end date with the LL.

Does your contract (whether it was written or verbal) include a notice period?

Whether it does or doesn't, some polite but frank discusssion may result in you both agreeing to let the contract end as soon as you have a new place lined up.

V6Matt

PasturesNew wrote: »

You're confusing yourself by trying to find evidence that you're not a lodger .... and f4nnying about with legal jargon .... and cobbling it all together just so you can justify having a sh4g and doing what you want.

LL's house, LL's rules. They're obviously house-proud and have a different opinion as to what's allowed/not to you .... so if you don't like it, learn the lessons and move on. Imagine the crush for the kitchen if everybody had somebody staying over at the weekend!

You're a lodger, the LL lives in - it'd be usual/normal to discuss such situations before moving in anywhere and/or after ... not by sneaking them in then getting on your high horse when the answer's "no".

If you want to "live your own life" then you need to find a shared house, not one where the LL lives and is house proud. You are not in a shared house, you're under the LL's beady eye and roof.

If you'd booked a B&B at the seaside and pulled some sort in a club ..... the guest house owner'd charge you a nightly rate (even though you sneaked them in and out again at 6am so the owner wouldn't know). Live in LL's often make such a charge to dissuade people from doing it - and to make it fair to everybody (who hasn't got guests staying regularly).

Thanks I think!

The kitchen is rarely used and no common area is shared, i.e people eat in their rooms, no shared lounge e.t.c.

Hardly sneaked in, girlfriend was there when I viewed the property with landlord, girlfriend comes at normal hours and no attempt to disguise. Landlord even said hello e.t.c

I didn't think it was unreasonable to have my girlfriend over once a week but seemingly the landlord can mandate anything they want to!

If there were any rules like this, I would have expected them to be overtly stated, documented and signed!

V6Matt

G_M wrote: »

Of course, if you agree to pay the charge in return for the LL agreeing to allow the guest access, that's fine.

But I suspect the truth is that this arrangement is beyond compromise or negotiation. Best result would be for you to find somewhere else and to agree an end date with the LL.

Does your contract (whether it was written or verbal) include a notice period?

Whether it does or doesn't, some polite but frank discusssion may result in you both agreeing to let the contract end as soon as you have a new place lined up.

Thanks GM, I think you are right and this is the kind of reasonable approach I would hope for. The contract states 1 months notice post contract termination.

I certainly had no expectation that I would be confined to so many rules including not going to the toilet post 9pm!, so given we clearly have different ideas of what is fair/reasonable I would agree an agreement over early termination would certainly be the best solution here.

mrginge

V6Matt wrote: »

I didn't think it was unreasonable to have my girlfriend over once a week but seemingly the landlord can mandate anything they want to!

Your opinion of what is or isn't reasonable is irrelevant, since it's not your house.

Which is the point everyone else is making.

Kynthia

You are a lodger. The landlord lives at the property and you share common areas such as a kitchen (whether you actually use it or not) and entrance. Locks on the bedrooms can blur the lines a little, but it is not enough on it's own to indicate you have exclusive occupation of the room especially as the landlord enters it on occasion.

It seems like you and your landlord aren't a good fit. They should have been clear on what was acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour and you shouldn't have assumed things. It's an easy enough mistake to make and hopefully everyone will learn from it. As it is the landlord's home they are allowed to decide how people behave in it which can be a disadvantage when lodging over renting a room in a shared house where you are a tenant.

Usually lodgers have few rights, but by signing a contract then there are contractual rights for both parties and you both need to abide by these. However both parties can agree to amend the contract, say to agree an early termination. Hopefully the landlord will agree to you leaving, otherwise he can sue you for any losses if you leave early anyway, but he'll have to mitigate his losses unlike with a tenancy.

BigAunty

V6Matt wrote: »

Thanks BigAunty, that is more of the definition I need, we share a common entrance and the kitchen but then there is the issue of exclusive access which I have to my locked bedroom and I believe that then means I have more rights (the checker didn't quite go to that level of detail).

I have seen advice for landlords that recommends they don't put locks on the doors of their lodgers and tenants, other than thumb screw operated one on the inside, for fire safety reasons. I may have perhaps seen it advice against it for other reasons (HMO? Shared or individual tenancy issues?) but can't remember the purpose of that advice. I think your focus on assuming you may have stronger rights because of a lock on your door may be misplaced.

On this website, it says a live in landlord can simply change the locks on the lodgers room as part of the eviction process.

https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/ending-a-letting

I think it takes a particular type of person to thrive as a lodger as the power balance and vibe can be different when you live with a property owner and there are particular types of owners who shouldn't be let loose on lodgers.

Suggest you negotiate a leaving date with your landlord if the license doesn't give a notice period.

V6Matt

Kynthia wrote: »

You are a lodger. The landlord lives at the property and you share common areas such as a kitchen (whether you actually use it or not) and entrance. Locks on the bedrooms can blur the lines a little, but it is not enough on it's own to indicate you have exclusive occupation of the room especially as the landlord enters it on occasion.

It seems like you and your landlord aren't a good fit. They should have been clear on what was acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour and you shouldn't have assumed things. It's an easy enough mistake to make and hopefully everyone will learn from it. As it is the landlord's home they are allowed to decide how people behave in it which can be a disadvantage when lodging over renting a room in a shared house where you are a tenant.

Usually lodgers have few rights, but by signing a contract then there are contractual rights for both parties and you both need to abide by these. However both parties can agree to amend the contract, say to agree an early termination. Hopefully the landlord will agree to you leaving, otherwise he can sue you for any losses if you leave early anyway, but he'll have to mitigate his losses unlike with a tenancy.

Thanks Kynthia, all sounds logical and you are right I didn't even think to ask about certain things that are normally givens. Also didn't appreciate that living with a landlord removes so many rights, having previously been a number of assured tenancy's without grief.

The ideal situation is that we just agree to early termination but one aspect I still don't have absolute clarity on is what happens in say this scenario:-

Say I do something that the landlord doesn't like, i.e use the toilet after 9pm! The contract doesn't state this as a rule or terms of the agreement.
So presumably the option is that either I learn to better control my bladder, or the landlord asks me to leave within a set period. Is there anything else that can possibly be used against me?

Modgepodge

I do feel for you, OP. I once lived in a house like this (I thought I was a tenant, but perhaps I was a lodger? 3 tenants plus LL in the house, each with lockable bedrooms but otherwise shared facilities). I clarified that it would be ok for my OH to stay over sometimes before taking the room. Within a few months the LL had decided she didn't like him being there at weekends (she didn't mind the week as she worked long hours) - while he was there he basically just hid in my room as the other people were so anti social and unfriendly. In the end I got out sharpish!