Hospital Complaint For Breach Of Equality Act 2010

Redx

if the person with the disability has to pay, the time is normally doubled or you get an extra hour free , so 2 hours parking for one hours payment , this is the "reasonable adjustment" they would have to make for a minimum compliance , but they should actually allow you to park in a normal bay with the "permit" (in this case the BB but which actually discriminates against the disabled with no BB) and be treated as if you are in the wide bays which would be more usual

if we assume this is won at popla, then the hospital should be placed on notice of a counter claim MCOL going in (with an LBC first)

Coupon-mad

In other words, there is absolutely no connection to reasonable adjustments and paying for parking.

That's not correct, GD. I hate to use Helen Dolphin (deluded friend of the PPCs) as the voice of reason but:

http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk/article/norwich-blue-badge-victory

''The council justified their position by saying that charging everyone the same amount was “equal” treatment of both disabled and non-disabled people.
Now, I certainly agree that disabled people should be treated equally! And I don’t believe that just because you are disabled you can’t afford to pay for your parking. But I don’t believe that charging disabled and non-disabled people the same is “equal”. In fact, I would argue that to charge Blue Badge holders the same to park as non-disabled people is in fact discriminatory. This is because the majority of disabled people take longer to get around the shops, and therefore end up paying more to park.''

Fergie76

So earlier this week I emailed the Trust asking:

[FONT=&quot]I have appealed to APCOA reference the parking invoice I have received and as expected, my appeal has been rejected. In order for me to appeal to POPLA, I need you to confirm on what basis you are claiming the charge has been issued. Are you trying to claim it is a part of the contract, damages for trespass, as a deterrent or some other reason?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I would appreciate if you can respond as soon as possible, as I am time-bound for my POPLA appeal and the basis of the charge will form part of my appeal.[/FONT]

Just got this reply from them this morning:

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your email - I have sought advice from our Facilities Team regarding the query in your email of 7 October.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Unfortunately we are unable to state on what basis the charge has been issued. As it is APCOA that issue the PCN’s it would be something that would need to be taken up with APCOA directly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am sorry that am unable to offer anything further.[/FONT]

Really?

So I have sent this response:

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your reply, but I am sorry that does not wash with me. It is your (the Trusts, not yours personally) car park and they are your agents, therefore they are acting on your behalf and your wishes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You must know on what grounds YOUR agent, acting on YOUR behalf, are trying to extort money from the general public? Surely it would be written in the contract you have with them?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Are you really trying to tell me, you have cowboys/scammers operating in your car park and you don’t know under what false pretence that they are trying extorting this money? If you don’t know under what conditions they are claiming these charges, then how do you know they are legal? And as they are your agents, you are responsible for their actions. If it is found that they are operating these charges without justification, then it falls on you and not them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can you please get me a proper answer by close of play today? And if the Trust does not know, then I suggest you should ask your agents and not me.[/FONT]

Fergie76

So had a reply back to my email from this morning:

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for email. I have again asked for some advice from the Facilities team however one staff member is absent and the other in meetings for most of the day so cannot assist with your query immediately.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, they have advised that they will look into this Monday, both the PCN charge and the FOI request. They have asked in the meantime if I can let them know the PCN number, which I understand from your initial email to us on 31 August, was XXXXXXXX, so that they can ask APCOA for the file and review your appeal.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My apologies for the delay but I hope to be able to contact you again on Monday.[/FONT]

My appeal to APCOA was just a basic one, so was always going to be rejected:

[FONT=&quot]APPEAL AGAINST UNFAIR PARKING CHARGE[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
Parking Charge Notice: XXXXXXXXX

I wish to appeal against the above parking charge as I was not the driver at the time of the event. I was also parked displaying a blue badge and the BPA AOS COP specifically states:

16. If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices.

Therefore you have broken your own Trade Association’s Code of Practice and a condition of membership is that you agree to abide by their COP.

I therefore require you to cancel this unjust parking notice immediately or issue a POPLA code. If you fail to cancel, I will also be required to bring this breach to the notice of the BPA and the DVLA.

Thank you,

bod1467

"I was not the driver at the time of the event. I was also parked" ... you outed yourself as the driver. (Not that it has any bearing on the subsequent events).

Fergie76

bod1467 wrote: »

"I was not the driver at the time of the event. I was also parked" ... you outed yourself as the driver. (Not that it has any bearing on the subsequent events).

Oops, freudian slip. :rotfl:

Also, it was the wife that appealed as she is the registered keeper and she was definitely not driving, as she does not drive. However, it was her that displayed the blue badge.

Fergie76

After various email ping-pong Monday and yesterday with the Trust, I have finally received a somewhat bizarre reply to my question, which was: [FONT=&quot]I need you to confirm on what basis you are claiming the charge has been issued. Are you trying to claim it is a part of the contract, damages for trespass, as a deterrent or some other reason?

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I have had a response from the Estates and Facilities Team regarding your query. My apologies for the delay in my reply.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Having investigated further, Mr Gary Munn, Head of Commercial Services for the Trust, has confirmed the following:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The photograph taken by APCOA when the charge notice was issued shows that the vehicle was parked in a standard bay. A Blue Badge is displayed but there was no proof of payment (P&D ticket) on the vehicle. The Trust policy regarding concessions for Blue Badges (as a private landowner this is at the sole discretion of the Trust) is that no car parking charge will be required for Blue Badge Holder vehicles when they are parked in a designated bay, they display a valid Blue Badge and the vehicle is being used for the purpose for which the Blue Badge was granted (i.e. the badge holder was present in the vehicle and the journey was for their benefit). This policy is clearly displayed on the sign located next to the vehicle (see attached enlargement). Also attached is a photo of the bay to show that the bay is a standard bay and without Blue Badge markings.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Taking the above into consideration the Trust is assured that APCOA has implemented the Trust policy correctly and does not find reason to question or overrule their action in issuing the notice.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The APCOA Contract Manager has informed the Trust team that as a gesture of goodwill and in the light of the wider questions submitted, they have “re-set the clock” on the Charge Notice and as a consequence Mr XxxxxxX can still pay at the discounted rate up to 29th October 2014.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I remain open to meeting or speaking with Mr XxxxxxX regarding this or any other Estates and Facilities matter.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Referring to the basis on which APCOA have issued the PCN, and as mentioned by Mr Munn above, the Trust has implemented the policy and APCOA are our agents who enforce this. Referring back to your email of 7 October, it would form part of the contract with APCOA that they have issued this PCN.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I hope this information helps[/FONT]

So now that I know it is contract, I will do my POPLA this weekend. I will also do my reply to the Trust's reply to my complaint, even though I am still waiting on a reply to my FOI, despite it being well over time, but I have been told I should have a reply within in 5 working days.

Coupon-mad

So now that I know it is contract

Are you sure? Sounds much more like breach and I have never seen APCOA have a sign about consideration rather than a breach of contract.

Do these links help as APCOA have form for being merely a paid agent with no standing as was found in Court re a Hospital case or two this year:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/apcoa-case-struck-out.html

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83479

and here, the one that started it & exposed the lack of standing (APCOA were not authorised to sue in their own name so no locus standi):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83241

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64601793#Comment_64601793

HTH

Fergie76

Thanks C-M.

I was just going by what they said in their reply '[FONT=&quot]Referring back to your email of 7 October, it would form part of the contract with APCOA that they have issued this PCN.[/FONT]'.

I have emailed them asking to clarify. I feel a wee bit embarrassed as I said that Mr Munn's reply was bizarre and then went on to have a bit of a rant myself... :rotfl:

Here is my email:

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for the reply.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am somewhat confused by Mr Munn’s reply, as I only asked one question and he didn’t actually answer it in his ramble, you did at the end.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can I just clarify what you mean by ‘[/FONT][FONT=&quot]it would form part of the contract with APCOA that they have issued this PCN[/FONT][FONT=&quot]’? Can you please responded by the end of today, as I will be submitting my POPLA appeal this weekend.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do you mean:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]It is part of the contract the Trust has formed with APCOA.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The driver of the car on the day in question agreed to pay this amount, by parking in that bay.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The driver has breached the terms of the contract, so therefore owes this sum as compensation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do you know that your car park signs used the word penalty (see illegal sign picture), until June this year? It was only when I complained to the BPA that signs were changed and APCOA were given penalty points by the BPA. And by change I mean they stuck a bit of blue tape over the line that contained the word penalty (see photo 2). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Also, as Mr Munn likes the signs so much, can you please tell me where on the sign it says, the PCN is £60? (see photo 1). Therefore, as there is nothing to mention this, there is no way the driver on the day in question could have agreed to pay this amount as part of any contract. Therefore, when I looked at your website, it quite clearly stated that this sum was a penalty and that it should only have been £30. As private companies, either you or APCOA can’t issue penalties, I deem that this PCN has been wrongly issued. That is even before I address Mr Munn’s bizarre reply, which I will do in a formal reply to your reply to my complaint.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BPA AOS COP states:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100. If the charge is more than this, operators must be able to justify the amount in advance. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr Munn also missed or failed to comment on the other breach of the BPA AOS COP which I included in my appeal to POPLA:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
I wish to appeal against the above parking charge as I was not the driver at the time of the event. The driver was also parked displaying a blue badge and the BPA AOS COP specifically states:

16. If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Notice it does not state that the car has to be parked in a disabled bay at the time of parking, just displaying a blue badge.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So despite claiming in your complaint reply that APCOA abide by the BPA AOS COP, since being awarded Park Mark status on 2 Jun 14, I have highlighted to clear breaches of the code. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But please be advised that if APCOA want to waste £27 plus VAT taking this to POPLA, then that’s fine as it costs me nothing and I will win.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards,[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

I was just going by what they said in their reply 'Referring back to your email of 7 October, it would form part of the contract with APCOA that they have issued this PCN.'.

That doesn't change the fact APCOA allege breach of contract and have to show a GPEOL, and standing, and plenty more!