no redundancy but offered unexpected compromise.

CorporalPesky

Hello, I was TUPE'd a month ago. I was a team leader - 7 staff plus me on a specialist team - my employer is re-organising everything and wants me to downgrade to the same grade as my old team members and lose all of the responsibilities I held. I and the other team members will all move to new teams doing less responsible and rewarding work with none of the autonomy we had before, plus I will lose all the line management role which i rate very highly as well as overall responsibility for the teams's work. Employer offered 3 years pay at old grade(I know this is a good thing) although when allocating work to the team I would work in, have weighted my work much more heavily than the other previous team members - presumably to ensure they get value for the extra salary! I have been told there is no redundancy - all my previous work has been given to others who are paid more than me. Out of the blue I was offered a "compromise agreement" - total surprise! eventually, after 7 weeks I have been given a copy, but the offer is for less than 2 months pay. I am 58, worked there for 6.5 years, no chance of getting another job paying what I earn now, I can't get my small pension because I am not being made "redundant" and in addition, part of the agreement allows them to make an announcement saying i have "retired" and making everything sound all lovey-dovey. I know a claim for unfair dismissal has a zero chance of success - union is involved but they are not very militant. I am off sick as well with the stress of it all. Any suggestions for my next steps - how do I get more money - I think 6 month's pay a reasonable amount to ask for but knowing my employer they are likely to say get lost and withdraw their first offer - new boss is well known as a right g*t - sorry for that word - he acts first and thinks later. the agreement doesn't give a reason for the end of my employment although I understand this is not necessary. Sorry for ranting a bit as well. x

tgon

Sounds like constructive dismissal. See your doctor to diagnose that your stress is related to your job and call ACAS for advice. Statutory redundancy is protected - lovey-dovey isnt.

CorporalPesky

It feels like constructive dismissal to me too but it's a non-starter as far as an ET is concerned - not a big enough claim - I have second hand experience of ET's from a close family member and unless you are talking mega-bucks or you are a really high profile famous persoon, it just isn't worth it plus constructive dismissal by all the accounts I have read, is very, very difficult to prove. In any case, my union says, and unhappily I think they are correct, that an ET judge would say 3 years salary at my current rate is fab and I should be grateful - the law isn't there to put things right for those who are wronged apparently. What I need to do is get the best possible settlement. It is possible that i can stay off sick for a while - i qualify for 6 months full pay - but I expect that my employer will want me to settle rather than pay me for 6 months. I don't think I can go back to work anyway even if i felt well enough, which i don't, the thought of it makes me cry - pathetic - but if i went back i think i would be tantamount to accepting a down grade - caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Another_not_new_user

It isn't constructive dismissal. You don't have to take the offer. You can stay on and have three years protected salary. So nobody is dismissing you, the salary protection means that redundancy does not apply, and you have a choice.


Even the most militant union can't change any of that, especially since they are correct and that is exactly what an ET judge would say. They say it for a few months of salary protection, never mind a few years worth.


Please don't take this as negativity, but realistically what are the chances of you getting another job at 58, never mind one that pays so well? Neither redundancy (which doesn't apply anyway) nor any settlement will cover the possibility of long term unemployment, and possibly for the rest of your working life. I would suggest that you look at an alternative approach - you are getting the same salary for three years (so to 61) without the hassle of managing people or the added responsibility of your previous position. If there is a job out there for the same pay or more that you like better, you have time to find it. If there isn't... even in three years time you will be better paid than the unemployed. You could view it as a coasting towards retirement, just get on with the job and value the time outside work more as something you can enjoy and afford to enjoy.


If, after thinking about that, you still want to propose a better settlement, then you have to say what you want. It's a haggle, and there is always a danger that the employer will simply withdraw any offer, no matter what you ask for. There are no secret recipes for success. You might get closer to what you want, you may not.

getmore4less

You might not like the changes but 3 years pay protection is a good offer and you can effectively work to rule in the new role for work life balance also continue to accrue service for any future cutbacks.

statutory redundancy would be 9 weeks @ the cap with 6 years service.

I think the way to up the offer is say you decided to stay.

just be available to step in if the people now doing the projects get into issues.

themull1

If it was me, i would take the three years salary.

getmore4less

What's the background to the TUPE,

usually happens when there is a need to move work for a reason.

There are also timeline issues in your post, you say you were TUPE a month a go but it took 7 weeks to get the CA(now a Settlement Agreement) that means you were offered one before the TUPE by your old employer.

I think your best action is to embrace the new role if they don't want you then the offer needs to go up or they need to go down a performance route.

CorporalPesky

many thanks for all your replies - definitely not taken as negative advice Another not new user, thank you. My dates are inaccurate getmoreforless, TUPE was 01/07, confused by the school holidays and being unwell, offer originally made 3 weeks after that and I asked for it in writing as I didn't understand why employer was making an offer - it really was out of the blue - offer arrived this morning. Also discovered I hadn't been paid today - no warning - but resolved now. I know 3 years pay is a good offer on the face of it but there's a lot of politics at my place of employment and it will be an unpleasant place to work. thank you for all your advice - I have a lot of thinning to do. kind regards all.

t0rt0ise

Take it and look for a new job. I got a new job in January of this year at the ripe old age of 59 so it isn't a given that you'll never work again. If you don't *need* the same salary as you are getting now then use it as an opportunity to do something different but enjoyable which is what I've done. If you do need the same salary then it'll be harder but is worth trying.

CorporalPesky

Good answer - and the option I am thinking of taking - life being too short for hassles!

getmore4less

One thing I found was once you accept that you just work at a place you can pretty much ignore the politics and let others paly the games, go in do the job go home have a life.

Once the reorg was in progress have you tried to fight for your position, or did you just accept the change and this come out of the blue.

It may be that the CA(SA) is just a way to get you out the way, as it is only a few weeks pay I think the I am happy to stay and just do my job is the way to stretch it out and I think they may up the offer, going with the I want more may just get them taking the harder line.

If they want you to say it is a retirement then you should be able to get the pension.