Faulty Gas Meter - Estimated Bill

ceedee66

Hi

Just curious to know if anyone has found themselves in a similar situation to mine.

We have a dual fuel online account with Scottish Power and are required to provide both gas and electric meter readings at regular intervals. In December 2013 a guy came to read the meters and told us that the digital gas meter had stopped working (the screen was blank) and that they would have to replace it. He told us that he would report it and we would be contacted by Scottish Power to arrange a time for it to be replaced. We heard nothing from Scottish Power and when I was next required to provide a reading, I was unable to do so as I couldn't enter a gas reading ( both gas and electric have to be entered at the same time). I contacted Scottish Power who advised me that they were unaware that our meter was faulty, even though their meter reader was only able to update the electric reading. I asked how they would know how much gas I had used and the representative told me that it wouldn't be a problem as there was an internal meter that the engineer could read. They eventually replaced the meter in May this year and the engineer told us that there was no internal reading and so entered "00000" as the old read. This basically means that were charged on the basis of an estimated gas usage for the best part of 11 months.

My main issue is that the estimate is based upon the previous year (2012 winter being colder than average) for the 2013 winter which was one of the warmest on record. (We use gas only for CH and hot water). In June 2013 we also had our boiler and CH system replaced with a more efficient one. I made these points to Scottish Power and was told that there was nothing that could be done about it as they have no other way of gauging our gas usage.

Is anyone aware of whether I have any redress against this as I am convinced that we are being dramatically over charged for the period when the meter was not working?

Cardew

Just write to Scottish Power, with your letter headed 'Complaint', setting out the points you made above.

[Deleted User]

You have no redress against the supplier, maybe National Grid for their faulty gas meters which are not really any suppliers responsibilty. I find , usually, a blank screen electric meter, at least once a month. I can report it on my HHC a hundred times and nothing is ever done about it. I always inform the customer to phone in to cust services. If you have any redress its against the meter reading company for their woeful hand held computers. I work for G4S who read meters for Scot Power , EDF, and BG . The normal thing is to accept an estimate, they usually weigh it in favour of the customer. You can have a go at biting Scot Powers head off but it will be the fault of whoever programmed the data collector device that the fault was not picked up.

Cardew

sacsquacco wrote: »

You have no redress against the supplier,

The OP is not attributing the meter fault to Scottish Power, but simply challenging their estimate of consumption.

I agree with you that estimates are usually in favour of the customer; and they do not 'blindly' base estimates on the last year's consumption - they have a sophisticated computer algorithm(monitored by an independent company) with weather data from the Met Office that allows for ambient temperatures from one year to the next.

Despite the above, everyone seems to have a reason to challenge estimates for gas/water/electricity as too high - the usual reason is that they worked away from home for months and house was empty;)

naedanger

ceedee66 wrote: »

Hi

Just curious to know if anyone has found themselves in a similar situation to mine.

We have a dual fuel online account with Scottish Power and are required to provide both gas and electric meter readings at regular intervals. In December 2013 a guy came to read the meters and told us that the digital gas meter had stopped working (the screen was blank) and that they would have to replace it. He told us that he would report it and we would be contacted by Scottish Power to arrange a time for it to be replaced. We heard nothing from Scottish Power and when I was next required to provide a reading, I was unable to do so as I couldn't enter a gas reading ( both gas and electric have to be entered at the same time). I contacted Scottish Power who advised me that they were unaware that our meter was faulty, even though their meter reader was only able to update the electric reading. I asked how they would know how much gas I had used and the representative told me that it wouldn't be a problem as there was an internal meter that the engineer could read. They eventually replaced the meter in May this year and the engineer told us that there was no internal reading and so entered "00000" as the old read. This basically means that were charged on the basis of an estimated gas usage for the best part of 11 months.

My main issue is that the estimate is based upon the previous year (2012 winter being colder than average) for the 2013 winter which was one of the warmest on record. (We use gas only for CH and hot water). In June 2013 we also had our boiler and CH system replaced with a more efficient one. I made these points to Scottish Power and was told that there was nothing that could be done about it as they have no other way of gauging our gas usage.

Is anyone aware of whether I have any redress against this as I am convinced that we are being dramatically over charged for the period when the meter was not working?

I agree that you should send a written complaint to your supplier. Personally I think you should seek redress from them. I would not be satisfied if they tried to get me to take my complaint up with someone else e.g. national grid or a meter reading company. You are paying them so you should claim against them (in my view). Who they subcontract to is their affair (even if they are legally required to deal with one subcontractor). (They in turn can claim against their subcontractor but that should not concern you.)

If you are unhappy with their response complain to the Ombudsman.

chanz4

how many units per day have they used, I would be around 8-10 per day

ceedee66

Thanks all for the replies.

The Customer Service centre weren't very forthcoming about how they had arrived at their estimate. They also made no mention (at least not yet) of taking the matter up with any other party.

My main concern is that my last bill after the replacement meter, was also an estimate. It suggested that we had consumed a total of 465 units, but the reading shows that we had only consumed 166 units, so you can understand my skepticism when it comes to trusting their method of estimating my consumption over the 11 months that the meter was faulty.

I am going to take regular readings from now on (weekly) and try and establish a clearer picture of what we are actually using, although since we only use gas for CH and HW, it isn't going to give good measure of what we would have consumed during the winter months. I hope at least, that it will show whether the new boiler is more efficient which I can use as an argument for them lowering their estimate.

Thanks again for the advice

EnergyInside

It would have been helpful if you noticed your gas meter was blank for nearly a year as you claim. Of course it's estimated based on previous consumption in the property, how else are they to estimate usage?

You can't just say "The winter was less harsh" and "I have a more efficient boiler" and expect them to lower your bill. There is no formula in the world that could accurately re-calculate your estimated consumption based upon these criteria. The size of your property, your heating system, the insulation, the era your home was built, geographical location, patterns of usage etc. etc. etc. all affect your consumption.

This can't be calculated accurately. So estimates are used on annual consumption from the previous year, ALWAYS. This is how every gas/electric direct debit in the country is calculated, by using this figure.

At a bare minimum check your meters once every 3 months. If it's faulty your supplier will get it replaced for free. It's that simple.

Andy_WSM

ceedee66 wrote: »

it isn't going to give good measure of what we would have consumed during the winter months.

Not only will it not provide a good measure, it won't provide any sort of indication at all as to what you have consumed in the previous Winter, OR any indication of the efficiency of your boiler.

As stated above, write a letter headed "complaint" and make sure an official complaint is opened. They'll have to listen to your input, review their estimated bill and it will likely be in your favour as that's really all they can do.

naedanger

EnergyInside wrote: »

It would have been helpful if you noticed your gas meter was blank for nearly a year as you claim.

If you read the original post there was more to it than this.

Of course it's estimated based on previous consumption in the property, how else are they to estimate usage?

The estimate should take account of all material factors including but not limited to previous consumption.

You can't just say "The winter was less harsh" and "I have a more efficient boiler" and expect them to lower your bill.

If it was me, then I would certainly be saying this if it was true. When the lack of meter readings has been mainly due to the supplier's failure I believe common fairness demands that any estimate should err in the customer's favour. If the supplier did not agree I would take my complaint to the Ombudsman.

There is no formula in the world that could accurately re-calculate your estimated consumption based upon these criteria.

Does not seem that difficult to me, but where there is inaccuracy it should be in the customer's favour (assuming the lack of an accurate reading is largely the supplier's fault).

The size of your property, your heating system, the insulation, the era your home was built, geographical location, patterns of usage etc. etc. etc. all affect your consumption.

Yes, and if the supplier is at fault for there being no accurate reading then the customer in entitled to ask that they modify the bill if any of these factors are likely to mean an estimate based solely on previous usage will be out.

This can't be calculated accurately. So estimates are used on annual consumption from the previous year, ALWAYS. This is how every gas/electric direct debit in the country is calculated, by using this figure.

Someone with a good case should take it to the Ombudsman who will judge it on what is reasonable. The idea the industry knows best is wrong. The Ombudsman will disagree with the industry response in every case he upholds for customers.

At a bare minimum check your meters once every 3 months.

How do you do this if the meter is not working despite telling the supplier and their response is "it wouldn't be a problem as there was an internal meter that the engineer could read"?

If it's faulty your supplier will get it replaced for free. It's that simple.

And by not doing so the supplier is at fault. Why then should the customer be disadvantage by an inaccurate estimate that does not allow for the milder weather compared to previous usage and the more efficient boiler? I am sure energy companies know how much difference the weather makes to demand and it is easy to compare the efficiency of newer versus older boilers. Therefore they should adjust their estimate for these factors.

ceedee66

EnergyInside wrote: »

It would have been helpful if you noticed your gas meter was blank for nearly a year as you claim. Of course it's estimated based on previous consumption in the property, how else are they to estimate usage?

You can't just say "The winter was less harsh" and "I have a more efficient boiler" and expect them to lower your bill. There is no formula in the world that could accurately re-calculate your estimated consumption based upon these criteria. The size of your property, your heating system, the insulation, the era your home was built, geographical location, patterns of usage etc. etc. etc. all affect your consumption.

This can't be calculated accurately. So estimates are used on annual consumption from the previous year, ALWAYS. This is how every gas/electric direct debit in the country is calculated, by using this figure.

At a bare minimum check your meters once every 3 months. If it's faulty your supplier will get it replaced for free. It's that simple.

I agree that there is no easy way for the company to estimate my consumption, but it is clear that every time they have used an estimate, they have overestimated my gas consumption. They based my last bill on an estimate since the new meter was installed and that was more than double what I had actually consumed. I am taking regular readings now to at least demonstrate that their current assumptions about my usage are incorrect.

The meter was faulty for 5 months before we noticed, but it took them a further 6 months to replace it. When I first reported it, I was told not to worry as there was an internal meter that would show our consumption, but that appears to have been incorrect, hence why I have now been billed for 11 months of estimated use.

I have written a complaint to them so I will see what response I get.