Help Required

Sovreign79

Hi All,
We have recently had our meter replaced - courtesy of EDF.
The reason it was replaced was because they figured out that we had only been paying day rates and no night rates. i.e day rates 100% of the time.
We have gone back to them and suggested that they owe us just over two years worth of the difference between the day rates and the night rate.
They have come back to us and stated that we have never paid any night rates and as such the £795 that they owed us has been cancelled out and actually we owe them £195.
I find this very hard to believe and also very hard to prove on their part. We had only just caught up from a previous EDF mistake and lowered our payments to £75, because of this new issue they want to put our rates up to £135.
I think this is unacceptable and would like to know if anyone else has had experience of this and if there is a way to make them 'pay for their mistakes' after all, how are we supposed to know that the meter is not reading properly.

Many thanks in advance

Sov

[Deleted User]

I think you should have spotted the night rate not moving yourself. It would have clearly shown on your bill zero night units used. 2 years is a long time for you to have missed it , and are you absolutely sure that the day rate was advancing in the 7 cheap rate hours ?. Occupiers must take some blame, after all , in the terms and conditions of your supply you are obliged to report any faulty meters

naedanger

Sovreign79 wrote: »

Hi All,
We have recently had our meter replaced - courtesy of EDF.
The reason it was replaced was because they figured out that we had only been paying day rates and no night rates. i.e day rates 100% of the time.
We have gone back to them and suggested that they owe us just over two years worth of the difference between the day rates and the night rate.
They have come back to us and stated that we have never paid any night rates and as such the £795 that they owed us has been cancelled out and actually we owe them £195.
I find this very hard to believe and also very hard to prove on their part. We had only just caught up from a previous EDF mistake and lowered our payments to £75, because of this new issue they want to put our rates up to £135.
I think this is unacceptable and would like to know if anyone else has had experience of this and if there is a way to make them 'pay for their mistakes' after all, how are we supposed to know that the meter is not reading properly.

Many thanks in advance

Sov

Ask them for a copy of their complaints procedure and then follow it. This will permit you to take your complaint to the Ombudsman if you are unhappy with your supplier's final proposal. (But you must first give your supplier an opportunity to answer your complaint.)

Personally I think there should be much more onus on the supplier to check the accuracy of meter readings than on their customers. It is their business after all. I would have thought they should be able to check meter readings automatically for potential issues that merit further investigation including zero night usage but significant day usage or vice versa.

That said if they can prove that you have not been charged at all for your night usage it is probably reasonable that they do so now provided they (a) give you reasonable time to pay and (b) err on the low rather than high side when estimating. This is all just my personal view however and I don't know how the Ombudsman would decide what is reasonable.

[Deleted User]

lets face it, the suppliers are hopeless at spotting any faulty meters, shambolic.. Thats why all these transposed meters go on for years and years. I know they dont question the transposed day and nights. Imagine using 1 unit at day rate and 23 units at night with full gas central heating for ten years.. thats the sort of level they are at, and a stopped electric meter with full gas central heating for 3 years. Just a couple of blaring blunders which "computer " messes up. Back in the days when the girls tapping away on typewriters added the bills up, nothing like that ever happened. Roll on smart meters for all to end this farce.
The suppliers are all itching to get rid of all meter readers for good and BG can now go a full 5 years between inspections, courtesy of their excellent Revenue Protection Unit. The others wont keep proper R.P.U s so they are only on 2 years inspections, so the onus is well and truly on the occupier to be more vigilant

Sovreign79

As a first time user of this site (in search of a constructive, pleasant and helpful reposte) I must say I was disappointed to read sacsquacco's initial comments that both judged and insulted our intelligence and capabilities. The main issue why it wasn't spotted, sacsquacco, was that the night rates were shown on our bill. I am afraid, my only downfall has been not keeping a distinct record of what the units have been month on month and had trusted that these numbers would be consequential and counting up! (that is another story as EDF had the previous meter fitted and it was running backwards - if we had not spotted that, the units would have gone from 99999 to 00000)
That aside, the further comments have been more useful - so I thank you for that. I find it almost impossible to understand how these companies can get it so wrong over and over again without any comeuppance.
Such a hoard of experience and knowledge, as this forum is, will come in useful again I am sure but from now on I will tread more carefully. I urge experts in their field to treat other users with a bit more dignity and respect - I am sure that there are many things that I could correct you on regards to a topic where I am expert.

Thanks for those helpful comments

Sov

System

I am sorry if you feel hurt by some of the responses above. Under OFGEM rules:

Quote: Suppliers are required to read and inspect your meter(s) at least every two years – although some suppliers may visit more frequently. Bills, between supplier meter readings, are issued using estimates based mainly on past consumption. Unquote

It follows that consumers should place very little trust in credit balances and estimated readings. Be that as it may. By changing the meter, EDF has acknowledged that the old meter was faulty. That said, neither you nor EDF can actually prove how much energy was consumed by day and by night. It follows that you need to come to some sort of settlement and the EDF complaints procedure may well be the best way forward. It might also be helpful if you 'estimated' how much energy you think you would have consumed by night. For example, do you have storage heaters,underfloor heating, or just hot water heating? You could use this estimate as a basis for a dispute resolution with EDF. The weakness in your position - which no doubt EDF will try to exploit - is the fact that you appear not to have passed EDF any actual meter readings which would have triggered a question from them as to whether the meter was working accurately.

[Deleted User]

Apologies Sov if you think I was being a bit ignorant to a newbie but for 15 years I have been following eco7 meters around where Joe Public are woeful at spotting undercharging and like lightning at spotting overcharging and are on the phone 2 minutes after seeing the bill. In your case its a bit baffling as how you didnt see the price total of each quarters night rate. It would be 0 kwhrs plus standing charge every quarter for 2 years. Most eco 7 meters I see now are legacy meters which should nt even be installed, with the more sensible gas central heating having taken over 12 years previously. One of my main beefs is why the suppliers, who can see this, dont suggest a single rate option to their loyal customers. They are quite happy to see them all forking out top price for the day units, eg 17 p a kwhr instead of 12p..Backwards running meters are a true rarity unless you have solar panels so EDF would nt spot that unless one quarter was lower than the next,
Hengis, BG the biggest supplier has been granted a full 5 years between meter inspections by OFGEM, so occupiers have a duty to both manage and report faulty meters themselves as stated in the T/C of supply

dogshome

I'm confused by the OP's first post
A) Was it the case this meter recorded Day use with no advance on the Night use, and the Bills showed Day & Night sections with zero charges for zero use at Night?
or
B)Was it the case that EDF billing showed only Day use and charged the consumption at Standard meter rates ?

In either case, a verbal or written demand for extra cash just isn't good enough.
The OP is entitled to a detailed written bill setting out dates, meter readings and charges for the entire period of adjustment, but needs to write a letter headed Complaint to get it